Is this technically theft?

Burnsy2023 · 6 Oct 2015 at 20:21

George Hincapie said:
We had these conversations all the time when I did the CID course. Frustrating but fun

It's highly unlikely it'd ever come to an interview but that's usually where things will either come together or fall apart. If they went no comment there's no way you could prove theft with the facts we have.

koooowweeee · 6 Oct 2015 at 20:21

Someone butt hurt because they're a slow runner and gets beaten to the machine?

George Hincapie · 6 Oct 2015 at 20:24

Burnsy2023 said:
It's highly unlikely it'd ever come to an interview but that's usually where things will either come together or fall apart. If they went no comment there's no way you could prove theft with the facts we have.

It would never get to interview; it isn't theft.

chief barker · 6 Oct 2015 at 20:31

Are vending machines robbing people?

My life experience says they do.....

Begbie · 6 Oct 2015 at 20:33

Who cares! Free chocolate!

Burnsy2023 · 6 Oct 2015 at 20:33

George Hincapie said:
It would never get to interview; it isn't theft.

I've seen more trivial matters go to interview.

robfosters · 6 Oct 2015 at 20:38

Would love to see a judges reaction if this was brought before him.

wesley · 6 Oct 2015 at 20:45

i found a loophole within the car parking ticket machine near my work. it would print out a all day display ticket even with price on it.

is that theft?

no

Burnsy2023 · 6 Oct 2015 at 20:58

Moses said:
Loopholes = dodgy ground. This guy thought he was being clever...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34403023

Indeed. Fraud is a possibility.

Andy90 · 6 Oct 2015 at 21:08

Burnsy2023 said:
That's not quite how it works. You have five points to prove in theft:

Dishonestly

Appropriates

Property

Belonging to another

With the intention to permanently deprive

You must prove all of these to prove the offence. How would you prove dishonestly to the required standard?

Read R V Ghosh - there is a two stage test whenever dishonesty has to be proven.

1) According to the ordinary standards of reasonable and honest people, was what was done dishonest?

2) If it was dishonest by those standards, did the defendant realise that reasonable and honest people would regard the conduct as dishonest?

If either of the answers are NO, then a prosecution would fail. If both answers are yes then it is likely a prosecution would proceed.

You are also forgetting that when someone appropriates property there are only three situations when it would not be regarded as dishonest

a) The person believed that they had a legal right to the property

b) That the person believed that the owner would have consented to the appropriation

c) That the owner cannot be located by taking reasonable steps.

Apply the above to the original scenario.

Burnsy2023 · 6 Oct 2015 at 21:55

Andy90 said:
Read R V Ghosh - there is a two stage test whenever dishonesty has to be proven.

1) According to the ordinary standards of reasonable and honest people, was what was done dishonest?

2) If it was dishonest by those standards, did the defendant realise that reasonable and honest people would regard the conduct as dishonest?

If either of the answers are NO, then a prosecution would fail. If both answers are yes then it is likely a prosecution would proceed.

Ultimately as per R V Ghosh, dishonesty is a matter for the jury to decide, but I think we all know you'd never get a charge here.

Andy90 said:
You are also forgetting that when someone appropriates property there are only three situations when it would not be regarded as dishonest

a) The person believed that they had a legal right to the property

b) That the person believed that the owner would have consented to the appropriation

c) That the owner cannot be located by taking reasonable steps.

Apply the above to the original scenario.

I'm not forgetting that at all, indeed I've already mentioned a) as a possible defence.

Scougar · 6 Oct 2015 at 22:14

We had a machine at work once that was dispensing all the food for free. Is that considered theft? Normally it was charged for and clearly it was a mistake.

Pawnless Endgame · 6 Oct 2015 at 22:27

My secondary school (early 1990s) vending machines registered a French half-franc coin as 20p

Tefal · 6 Oct 2015 at 22:52

estebanrey said:
The machine wants 10p, it gets 10p. So I'm guessing all they are checking is that the amount of money the machine says it should have tallies with what they actually have which it would.

And you'd think they'd notice that their profit has dropped

Flubble · 6 Oct 2015 at 23:04

the vending machine is the thief, either overpriced or doesn't give change or the item gets stuck in there.

TubbyGreg · 6 Oct 2015 at 23:13

Why are you so paranoid?

estebanrey · 6 Oct 2015 at 23:20

Pawnless Endgame said:
My secondary school (early 1990s) vending machines registered a French half-franc coin as 20p

I used to work for a catering company that ran a few vending machines around a factory floor and we kept finding people were using one of the Euro coins that wasn't worth much was being taken as a quid in the machines.

They all had to be replaced in the end

jonwhite · 6 Oct 2015 at 23:24

how can it be theft if you pay for it? its their mistake

please can you tel me where the vending machine is

Hilly · 6 Oct 2015 at 23:46

there used to be a vending machine where I worked, where if you pressed the coin release slot, plus typed in what you wanted, you'd get it for free.

Sandycheeks · 6 Oct 2015 at 23:50

Could this not come back on the person re-filling the machine?
I would think at some point the round would have an audit/stockcheck, say at the end of the month and the takings could be say £40 down....I would assume the boss will be asking questions.