Only if you think gear changes are a chore, and you're driving a manual...
Is Torque Overrated ?
- Thread starter Fr0dders
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Only if you think gear changes are a chore, and you're driving a manual...
The whole point was that the 330d would get through 40-70 in one gear whereas the 330i would require changing from 2nd to 3rd. I.e. the diesel would be the outright quickest at accelerating.
Indeed, direct linkage and a great box helps with that though. Some cars will throw a hissy fit if you try to get it into first while moving even with accurate rev matching.
I put my S into 1st on the road plenty, it's not just for stop-starts!
As for this whole debate on torque, lorrys with no load and some 1,000s of lb/ft torque would be the fastest things on the road if torque was the be all and end all of speed.
Pretty sure most people have grasped that here and personally the whole "Do not have to change gear" argument is moot. If that's your issue, go buy a petrol with an auto box and tadaaa, "Diesel like" in-gear acceleration and you did not have an extra step!
What? That's a silly argument.
The 330i will get 40-70 in one gear too, if you use the right one. 3rd gear for a 40mph punt to overtake is fine, a 330i box is going to top out at what, 60-65 TOPS in 2nd anyway, unless you want absolute bleeding maximum speed you would do the overtake in 3rd.
Neither the current or last Zafira has an ECU that can hold 2 maps.
Same with the vectra and astra. The sport button is "tweaked" to restrict the throttle, effectively pegging back the max attainable throttle off sport mode to say 60 % or so, effectively making it feel faster with sport on.
Tuners pulled the wool over everybodys eyes with that one
The VXR guys did mention that sport off wasn't a different map, just a tweak of the new map to approximate an unmapped car.. I've seen my brothers VXR Zafira plots for standard and remapped sports ON, and remapped sports OFF, it's close enough to not worry..
But, you were talking about exiting a roundabout, so presumably you'd be going fairly slowly anyway, in 2nd gear at around 3000rpm ish?
Debatable, a gearchange doesn't slow you down that much, especially when you factor in the faster acceleration in each gear.
Associate
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A 0-60mph of 5.9s from a large saloon car is impressive, surely your happy to be into the 5s?
Your 30-70mph is good and seems about right for the power increase, the extra torque would come more into play in say 30-70mph run in 5th or 6th gear only, you'd then probably see quite a difference.
Plus your FWD so severly traction limited, one can only imagine the torque steer in that thing!
Proper missile like cars tend to do 30-70mph sub 3s region.
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But, you were talking about exiting a roundabout, so presumably you'd be going fairly slowly anyway, in 2nd gear at around 3000rpm ish?
yup, slowly in 2nd, liek you would coming away from any tight roundabout, 2krpm on the tacho. the diesel would be off like a scalded cat whilst the petrol waited for its revs. or (like it seems everyone else here would do) would be stuff it into 1st and revs the borrocks off it jus to prove a point to a diesel that you would have passed in 3rd anyway. surely that would be too much "driver involvement" for ocuk motors thoguh?
Are you sure? Wheel torque is likely to be similar given that diesels tend to be much longer geared...
Soldato
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I believe BHP is the key to rapidity too but those trucks are surely geared towards load pulling and not bobtailing hence why they'd never be rockets? Never mind the limiter on some
its happened to me twice, at the same roundabout, at that point in the rev range, i think mine is only turning out 130lbft ish, possibly less. i put my foot down and he just steamed away. like has been said, in a petrol you use all the revs, mine had reeled him in by the top of 3rd. the diesel just had more response and more "go" at that point in the rev range
my point being, just because you have more bhp doesnt mean you'll be faster. max bhp only tells you one part of the story.
sorry but my real world finding totally contradict that.
The increase in in gear acceleration before/after remap was proportiional to the increase in BHP
not torque.
Soldato
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Torque is only a moment.
In terms of performance. Having 51Nm at 5000RPM is better than having 100Nm at 2500RPM.
I drive every single day, in a DIESEL company van. My own vehicle is a PETROL car which I drive nearly every day too. I also ride a 1000cc sportsbike in my spare time. Thanks very much for asking.
To be honest at 20mph, my car would pull fine in 2nd gear anyway I imagine, I'd be ahead even before hitting 3rd gear and it's supposed to be a "revvy" car (Focus ST170, 2ltr N/A engine). Even so, I've put it in 1st gear whilst moving and not had a problem before, I don't see what your issue is? Use the gearbox and the petrol is as quick or quicker than the diesel. If changing gear is a "chore" to you then diesel is the better option I suppose because it lets you be lazy. I just don't see how pressing a pedal with your foot whilst moving a stick with your hand is so hard.
Hmm.. same situation on the bike I'd get to about 75mph in 1st gear if I wanted, but would probably use 2nd gear instead just to try and stop it wheelying
(and it would still lift the front wheel of the ground a bit if I accelerated hard!)
Soldato
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"I just don't see how pressing a pedal with your foot whilst moving a stick with your hand is so hard."
To be fair, if you drive a lot, not having to change gear regularly is a huge bonus.
To be fair, if you drive a lot, not having to change gear regularly is a huge bonus.