Is your company any closer to supporting the iPhone with Corporate email?

[Vanilla]

Just wondering if some of you are close to using iPhones with Exchange for Corporate email or not?

We hope to have it shortly, in fact certain companies we own have had it for a long time. A lot of the issue was around security but it's finally appears to be coming to a stage where they feel it is in-line with BES from a security standpoint.

 

[Ev0]

Nope, not CESG approved (and can you even encrypt them yet, I'd have thought so by now) so can't/won't have them.

What centralised management/auditing stuff is out there for them?

 

[Ev0]

Reasons like this why we'll not go for it yet

http://www.scmagazineuk.com/Apples-iPhone-is-not-secure-enough-for-business-roll-out/article/129946/

Now I know you can do similar stuff with other things but until the management and security tools are up and running a lot of places won't touch them.

 

[Quint]

We have loads of customers using iPhone's with there exchange server.

 

[Zaf]

All our Directors are useing iPhone 3G since release! If they get stolen etc you can remote wipe them with exchange

 

[Ev0]

All our Directors are useing iPhone 3G since release! If they get stolen etc you can remote wipe them with exchange

Remote wipe isn't good enough security though sadly.

The data is still unencrpyted, and we're mandated to have everything encrypted so thus cannot have them yet.

Plus again the CESG approval is the killer.

It's not that the funtionality isn't there, yeah they work with exchange fine.

 

[iaind]

I wouldnt see any point spending time trying to get it working - the iPhone doesnt even begin to resemble a business tool and shouldnt be used as such.

If the directors at my company want iPhones, they're welcome to them but for email they're going to have to stick to the WinMo/Nokia devices they're given...

 

[fini]

If the directors at my company want iPhones, they're welcome to them but for email they're going to have to stick to the WinMo/Nokia devices they're given...

Somehow I doubt that if they told you to sort it you'd say this to them.

 

[Ev0]

Somehow I doubt that if they told you to sort it you'd say this to them.

Depends on the company imho, both places I've worked I'll happily tell (and have done) every director what they can and can't have with regards to IT stuff Just because they want something is not justification.

It's the same for my place though, they have a choice of 3 devices and that's it.

Our current chief exec wanted Blackberrys at our place, really wanted them, they went down the windows mobile route (this is all before I started).

 

[mikeh501]

I wouldnt see any point spending time trying to get it working - the iPhone doesnt even begin to resemble a business tool and shouldnt be used as such.

Jeez, thats short sighted. I think you mean that the iphone doesnt nicely fit into your IT policies; this doesnt mean its not a great business tool! Because it is! The iphone as a business tool completely blows every windows smartphone i've ever used entirely out of the water. I recently trialled an iphone for 2 weeks in the US and it was a revelation compared to my existing winmobile 6 phone.

As for blackberry's, well the last time we used BES it was a complete joke, which made us go with the windows mobile devices; so much easier to setup. The iphone works entirely the same as the windows mobile device with no issues I can tell. As for Nokia phones, how do you get it working, as I though it didnt have proper exchange support.

 

[iaind]

Somehow I doubt that if they told you to sort it you'd say this to them.

I already have, as well as to other staff members.

Directors are staff members just like anyone else and still need to abide by policies and use the same equipment as anyone else. Treating them like superhuman gods who can have anything they ask for on a whim is pretty stupid IMO.

As has been said, security issues like encryption are a problem as well as the non replaceable battery for the road warriors. Plus the absolutely ludicrous costs just cant make them justifiable. A Nokia E71 is a pretty much perfect Exchange companion as it can tick all the boxes the iPhone cant. I'll never be convinced by the iPhone, i've used them plenty of times but I cant see them as any more than a shiny toy/fashion statement. (This isnt anti Apple, I own an iPod..)

The final area where the iPod is a bit of a joke for business is third party applications. We have software for field workers that requires windows mobile and if we even asked the vendor about iPhone support we'd just be laughed at. Plus its relatively easy to develop our own applications for WinMo, the same cant be said for the iPhone...

 

[iaind]

As for blackberry's, well the last time we used BES it was a complete joke, which made us go with the windows mobile devices; so much easier to setup. The iphone works entirely the same as the windows mobile device with no issues I can tell. As for Nokia phones, how do you get it working, as I though it didnt have proper exchange support.

I've never used blackberry's - quite fancied a Bold when I changed my own phone but ended up with a Touch Diamond instead. I've never seen the point in needing to spend money on BES software and provision a new server, when several devices will connect securely to Exchange directly.

As for Nokias - Nokia Mail for Exchange (http://www.nokiaforbusiness.com/nfb...c926a6110VgnVCM200000718ef393RCRD&region=EMEA) works just like ActiveSync on WinMo but with the speed and ease of use of typical Nokia Devices. Comes preinstalled on newer E series devices, dont know about other ones though. Available for download for most phones though..

 

[Ev0]

People who are saying Blackberrys are hard to setup, what experiences have made you feel like that?

I've used all sortes of management systems for different mobile devices (Afaria, Intellisync, exchange policies, BES etc) and tbh out of the box the Blackberry wins hands down. The fact you can provision a device just by entering an email address and pw on the device and it will then set it up exactly as it should is a huge time saver.

I think the whole iPhone thing really depends on the type of business and how you run your IT. If you're a company that works how iaind's (by the sounds of it) and mine does then it sounds like everything is a bit more formal/bureaucratic so therefore adopting a new technology requires pretty good justifications and needs to follow through a formal process.

Interestingly we're just about to junk our WinMo devices and move to Blackberrys (long story but it's not costing us a penny to do so) as the Blackberry just offers more of what we want and need.

My previous place now use Blackberry for managers/PIM users, but for people who have a mobile device as a business tool which runs some corporate apps it's windows mobile all the way as that's what the software has been developed on.

 

[mikeh501]

People who are saying Blackberrys are hard to setup, what experiences have made you feel like that?

I've used all sortes of management systems for different mobile devices (Afaria, Intellisync, exchange policies, BES etc) and tbh out of the box the Blackberry wins hands down. The fact you can provision a device just by entering an email address and pw on the device and it will then set it up exactly as it should is a huge time saver.

Ill caveat that the last time we did BES was 2-3 years ago. It could have changed by now. The issues which put us off were the need to use BES at all (something else to support). BES setup itself isnt exactly intuitive and IIRC it required other ports be setup on our firewall to communicate with RIM servers. The last issue was that all our mail data apparently had to go via RIM servers in order to be delivered to the handsets which we thought was ridiculuous. With microsoft mobile we already had a SSL webmail setup for it, so it was very very easy to get going with the devices and didnt require any further servers, software or complexity in order to make it work. Quite elegant.

I think the whole iPhone thing really depends on the type of business and how you run your IT. If you're a company that works how iaind's (by the sounds of it) and mine does then it sounds like everything is a bit more formal/bureaucratic so therefore adopting a new technology requires pretty good justifications and needs to follow through a formal process.

I guess what annoyed me about iand's reply above was his suggestion that the iphone isnt a business device and shouldnt even be considered. Well as an IT professional and a business man I think its a little short sighted. Anything which adds value to the business and IMHO the iphone is an excellent device for the road warrior especially overseas should be taken seriously. So if the business sees value in it, then its upto the IT folks to make it work. End of. Thats how it works in every organization, big or small.

 

[iaind]

I guess what annoyed me about iand's reply above was his suggestion that the iphone isnt a business device and shouldnt even be considered. Well as an IT professional and a business man I think its a little short sighted. Anything which adds value to the business and IMHO the iphone is an excellent device for the road warrior especially overseas should be taken seriously. So if the business sees value in it, then its upto the IT folks to make it work. End of. Thats how it works in every organization, big or small.

I'm curious what about it you think adds value to business? In terms of specification, there's nothing on it you cant find on cheaper WinMo devices. There are several things that dont make it a business device (see my last post), I'd be interested to know what I'm missing.

In my business, users come to me with requirements and its my responsibility to give them the best and most cost effective solution - so they'll say they want mobile email and not that they want iPhones (or any other specific device).

Some directors are very guilty of corporate willy waving - my board room is bigger than yours, my iPhone is shinier than your Blackberry etc etc, but I really dont have time to pander to that - especially at times like this, getting it right first time and bringing projects in at the best cost is much more important.

I'm not anti-iPhone on the whole, I quite like them as personal devices for their media functionality etc but there's 2 things I fundamentally disagree with - the cost (I pay £20 a month for what would cost me £35 on an "iPhone tarrif") and the restrictions on third party applications. The latter generally doesnt end up as a problem for 99.99% of users but its the principal I disagree with

 

[mikeh501]

I'm curious what about it you think adds value to business? In terms of specification, there's nothing on it you cant find on cheaper WinMo devices. There are several things that dont make it a business device (see my last post), I'd be interested to know what I'm missing.

Ill start by saying that theres nothing on the iphone which cant be done with a windows mobile device; However, and its a big BUT. The quality, ease of use and general functionality of the device puts it into a different league to the slow, crappy interfaced, over complex and downright ancient technology which windows mobile has. In terms of specifics:

* Iphone mail is superior to the win/mo devices i've used. Its faster, easier to read and generally a better experience.
* text input. The text input on the iphone is way better than an equivalent full screen win/mo device.
* Maps/GPS. The win/mo devices are generally slow to pickup location, slow to access the maps software and is far less integrated into the device
* AppStore. The appstore contains some pretty cool apps for those on the move. Like a wifi finder, expense submission app etc. Useful.
* Support. Most win/mo devices sold have firmware which has been hacked about by the carrier. This makes bug fixes painful, issues with dropped calls, poor reception etc etc. Seems that the carriers support of the platform is generally rubbish which reflects badly onto the devices themselves. Obviously with apple they own the hardware and software which makes their support and ongoing future of the device far brighter.

We have had numerous win/mo devices have all had there issues, some dropping calls, some failing to make a call, some with poor reception etc etc. A lot of these issues come down to carrier's implementation of the firmware onto the device but at the end of the day - it doesnt work properly. With the iphone you get a device which

In my business, users come to me with requirements and its my responsibility to give them the best and most cost effective solution - so they'll say they want mobile email and not that they want iPhones (or any other specific device).

I can understand that, but dont think that ease of use, quality and how your corporation reflects to the outside world aren't requirements too.

Some directors are very guilty of corporate willy waving - my board room is bigger than yours, my iPhone is shinier than your Blackberry etc etc, but I really dont have time to pander to that - especially at times like this, getting it right first time and bringing projects in at the best cost is much more important.

Couldnt agree more.

I'm not anti-iPhone on the whole, I quite like them as personal devices for their media functionality etc but there's 2 things I fundamentally disagree with - the cost (I pay £20 a month for what would cost me £35 on an "iPhone tarrif") and the restrictions on third party applications. The latter generally doesnt end up as a problem for 99.99% of users but its the principal I disagree with

Well on your first point. You really are getting the shaft if your paying that much. You shouldnt pay anything for your handsets at all! We pay approx £13 per month per connection and all of our hardware is completely free of charge. We are on Orange currently but looking to goto O2 for the iphone and they are offering a similar deal. FYI we spend about £25k per year with Orange mostly due to international calls.

As for the app store, well yeah its proprietary and you have to play by Apples rules, but you cant say it hasnt been a complete success. The quantity of applications there including some business ones is a big selling point.

 

[Ev0]

Ill caveat that the last time we did BES was 2-3 years ago. It could have changed by now. The issues which put us off were the need to use BES at all (something else to support). BES setup itself isnt exactly intuitive and IIRC it required other ports be setup on our firewall to communicate with RIM servers. The last issue was that all our mail data apparently had to go via RIM servers in order to be delivered to the handsets which we thought was ridiculuous. With microsoft mobile we already had a SSL webmail setup for it, so it was very very easy to get going with the devices and didnt require any further servers, software or complexity in order to make it work. Quite elegant.

That's the thing, if the native windows stuff offered everything we needed I doubt we'd be changing. But it doesn't.

Yes the mail traffic thing is the only slight downside, but with end to end encryption it's not too much of a worry. Besides, with the nod from CESG it's all good

I did have a brief look at system centre mobile device manager (mouthful and a half) but the costs involved with setting up didn't make it a clear winner over a blackberry solution. Only worked on 6.1 devices and our estate is all 6 at the moment, so either way we've got to replace everything.

As for ports on a firewall, well that's no big deal really either.

Our main driver as I keep banging on about is security, with device management a close second. Blcakberry has both these bases covered very well, the native MS stuff doesn't.

The only reason they didn't go Blackberry in the first place was political, chief exec wanted them, our director had a falling out with the chief exec so went the opposite way lol.

Have to say I find my current win device (touch diamond) cracking, the gps stuff picks up it's location seemingly right away with no problems. My old tytn II was naff and took ages.

Out of interest how many devices are we talking about here for everyone, do you support tens, hundreds, thousands?

 

[iaind]

Ill start by saying that theres nothing on the iphone which cant be done with a windows mobile device; However, and its a big BUT. The quality, ease of use and general functionality of the device puts it into a different league to the slow, crappy interfaced, over complex and downright ancient technology which windows mobile has. In terms of specifics:

* Iphone mail is superior to the win/mo devices i've used. Its faster, easier to read and generally a better experience.
* text input. The text input on the iphone is way better than an equivalent full screen win/mo device.
* Maps/GPS. The win/mo devices are generally slow to pickup location, slow to access the maps software and is far less integrated into the device
* AppStore. The appstore contains some pretty cool apps for those on the move. Like a wifi finder, expense submission app etc. Useful.
* Support. Most win/mo devices sold have firmware which has been hacked about by the carrier. This makes bug fixes painful, issues with dropped calls, poor reception etc etc. Seems that the carriers support of the platform is generally rubbish which reflects badly onto the devices themselves. Obviously with apple they own the hardware and software which makes their support and ongoing future of the device far brighter.

We have had numerous win/mo devices have all had there issues, some dropping calls, some failing to make a call, some with poor reception etc etc. A lot of these issues come down to carrier's implementation of the firmware onto the device but at the end of the day - it doesnt work properly. With the iphone you get a device which

I agree about WinMo being a crappy interface, thats why I'm starting to move to Nokia for our mobile devices. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who hasnt used a Nokia phone at some point, so it makes the transition fairly painless for them.

I personally dont find the iPhone text input any better or worse than my HTC Diamond, although that has HTCs own soft keyboard. Personally I dislike touchscreen keyboard, its my main regret in buying the HTC.

Most of my users barely know how to conduct a phone call, let alone purchase apps or use map applications, so havent come across those issues. Also havent come across reliability issues, currently got HTC Touch devices and some iMates out there..

I can understand that, but dont think that ease of use, quality and how your corporation reflects to the outside world aren't requirements too.

Couldnt agree more.

Well on your first point. You really are getting the shaft if your paying that much. You shouldnt pay anything for your handsets at all! We pay approx £13 per month per connection and all of our hardware is completely free of charge. We are on Orange currently but looking to goto O2 for the iphone and they are offering a similar deal. FYI we spend about £25k per year with Orange mostly due to international calls.

As for the app store, well yeah its proprietary and you have to play by Apples rules, but you cant say it hasnt been a complete success. The quantity of applications there including some business ones is a big selling point.

We have an odd setup for mobile phones. Our IT department dont deal with the contract or the voice only devices so I dont know the ins and outs of the deal, but the contract basically has quite cheap line rental per connection and didnt include any devices. It did however include a "pot" of money from the supplier to purchase phones with as and when we need them. This means we pay a discounted SIM only price and the iPhone was more than double the cost of a decent Nokia or WinMo device, so really hard to justify. As for personal cost, I was upgrading and was offered a £35 contract discounted to £20 and free phone to take the XDA Ignito (touch diamond..). When I asked about the iPhone they said there were no discounts so I had to pay the full cost - which even for £35 gives less than the standard £35 contract in terms of minutes/texts.

I can see the benefit of the app store and it has been a huge cash cow for Apple but I just fundamentally disagree with not being able to do what I want with my own device. If I want to be able to knock up an application to use within my business for internal use, I dont think its appropriate for another company to decide whether they like it or not..

 

[mikeh501]

Horses for courses I guess. Our business is IT, so the vast majority of our staff are IT professionals and push the technology envelope so they like a device which gives them flexibility.

I wasn't a believer at first, but having spent 2 weeks with an iphone whilst in the US i'm completely sold on it. Sitting in chicago airport waiting for a plane i'm browsing the net (awesome browser), checking my mail, listening to podcasts and browsing the app store etc. Found it really useful and definately made life easier..... you know.... i'm in the middle of nowhere and ive just finished my meeting... now wheres the nearest starbucks click click done. Winna! You just cant communicate that in a requirements document lol.

 

[iaind]

Absolutely - different businesses, different requirements - dont think i'll ever see the iPhone as a serious business device though. I'm part of a relatively small IT team supporting a company who's business is not even remotely technical. We're also a charitable organisation so costs are a bigger issue than other companies and corporate image is almost a nil requirement..