ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

Well having just gotten back from Berlin a few days ago I can tell people that it is A LOT worse than the papers or the news have let on.

Me and my mom, Who is German, Were waiting at a bus stop and there were about 20'ish "refugees", The bus came and then instead of doing the normal thing and waiting they decided to rip open the front doors breaking the hydraulics system and then did the same to the doors at the rear.

The bus driver had to stop the bus completely and call the police at which point the "refugees" started shouting and threatening people as well as calling women who weren't covered head to toe all sorts of names.

A few days prior to this there was a 14 year old girl gang raped by "refugees" only round the corner from my moms which oddly enough didn't make national news and the most disturbing part of that is that is it's becoming common place with the authorities turning a blind eye to it or just saying "keep them at arms length".

My 2 x cousins, 5 and 9 have both been taken out of school due to "refugees" throwing rocks at them in their own play areas in their schools shouting something in arabic which the teacher couldn't understand and older "refugee" men hanging around kindergartens.

The church my mom, Aunt, Uncle and cousins go to has been defaced with "refugees" using it's external facade as a urinal and heckling anyone who goes in or out of the church, Again the authorities turn a complete blind eye to this.

The whole situation is messed up and merkel is making it worse and worse by the day, Suicidal would be an understatement.
 
I'm still not sure if her government are really really naive or intentionally playing a very dangerous game - either way its not good.
 
Rroff said:
I'm still not sure if her government are really really naive or intentionally playing a very dangerous game - either way its not good.
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To my knowledge merkel wanted to bring in a lot of extra workers hence the open border policy which would inturn drive down wages etc....

Just 1 of the theories I've heard but it kinda makes sense, Also slightly backfired on her and our entire country which is now in very real danger.
 
gettothechopper said:
Looks like they are pretty busy with the Tonkas in Iraq at the mo
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-air-strikes-against-daesh

Maybe the situation on the ground better requires them there?

We are just a part of a big operation with other countries also targeting Isis in Syria or Iraq
It might be that the "plan" has assigned our patch in Iraq rather than Syria at the moment?

Also you see to be of the impression that we are only joining in because we have Brimstone - I think perhaps thats not the only reason?

That article says Typhoons hit some targets in Syria on the 17th (they are not part of the "7" count)

Maybe the Typhoons are currently better for reaching targets in Syria and the Tornados Iraq?

I think you are a bit daft if you think we only increased the area of operation to Syria because we have alone have Brimstone

Its war - plans change all the time to reflect what is happening, or to get resources best used in the right places - to call that deceitful is just silly

I also dont see how being cautious in what is a massive mess of a conflict is a bad thing


David Camerons reason for hitting isis is syria was
"IS poses a terror threat to British people, and so the UK must strike IS in its "heartland" - Syria.
He argues the UK has a moral obligation to get involved, and should not be "content with outsourcing our security to allies"."
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Yeah but that still doesn't answer the question that persuasive argument was made in parliament no less that a substantive reason for the UK to join the illegal coalition was the efficacy of the aforementioned brimstone missile which apparently hasn't been ysed.
 
thep02 said:
Yeah but that still doesn't answer the question that persuasive argument was made in parliament no less that a substantive reason for the UK to join the illegal coalition was the efficacy of the aforementioned brimstone missile which apparently hasn't been ysed.
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You have made several mistakes in your post, I will highlight them so that you can see where you went wrong:


1) David Cameron's reason for joining was: “The longer Isil is allowed to grow in Syria, the greater the threat it will pose. It is wrong for the United Kingdom to subcontract its security to other countries, and to expect the aircrews of other nations to carry the burdens and the risks of striking Isil in Syria to stop terrorism here in Britain.” It was not as you seem to think only because we alone have Brimstone.

2) The Brimstone was mentioned during the Syria debate as a direct answer to a question of how we might minimise civilian deaths or collateral damage. It was not as you seem to think the reason that we joined the coalition. But a tool that could be used if any when needed. It might be that a situation has not yet occurred where it is needed over another weapon and so it simply hasn't suited the RAF to use one yet.

3) It doesn't matter how accurate a weapon is - you need qualified targets to shoot them at. No targets may have presented themselves that required it.
It seems that the plan currently has Tornados (with the brimstones) being used in Iraq and Reapers and Typhoons being used in Syria (Reaper uses Hellfire which is similar to brimstone in some ways, Typhoon has Paveway)
It could be for many reasons that things are being used this way round - plane fuel use, endurance, time on target etc etc etc or perhaps its been decided that after the Turkey / Russia shootdown incident that the Typhoons are better equipped for contested airspace (and the Reapers are expendable)

4) The statistic from the article / Parliamentary question only targets a specific date range, Syria, and ISIS "kills" It doesn't include hits after those dates, in Iraq or strikes against non human targets.
This question shows that they have been used in Syria, upto 18th Jan, 5 had been used in Syria (I am assuming from the answer to the other question that they must not have resulted in kills)

http://www.parliament.uk/business/p...ts/written-question/Commons/2016-01-12/903067

5) The idea that you are OK with us hitting ISIS in Syria as long as we use Brimstone - but feel disgusted, outraged and lied too because we are using other weapons is hilarious

6) Calling it an "illegal coalition" is the derpiest thing I have read on here in weeks (and I have been reading the trump thread :p) so congratulations for that.
 
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Dicehunter said:
Well having just gotten back from Berlin a few days ago I can tell people that it is A LOT worse than the papers or the news have let on.

Me and my mom, Who is German, Were waiting at a bus stop and there were about 20'ish "refugees", The bus came and then instead of doing the normal thing and waiting they decided to rip open the front doors breaking the hydraulics system and then did the same to the doors at the rear.

The bus driver had to stop the bus completely and call the police at which point the "refugees" started shouting and threatening people as well as calling women who weren't covered head to toe all sorts of names.

A few days prior to this there was a 14 year old girl gang raped by "refugees" only round the corner from my moms which oddly enough didn't make national news and the most disturbing part of that is that is it's becoming common place with the authorities turning a blind eye to it or just saying "keep them at arms length".

My 2 x cousins, 5 and 9 have both been taken out of school due to "refugees" throwing rocks at them in their own play areas in their schools shouting something in arabic which the teacher couldn't understand and older "refugee" men hanging around kindergartens.

The church my mom, Aunt, Uncle and cousins go to has been defaced with "refugees" using it's external facade as a urinal and heckling anyone who goes in or out of the church, Again the authorities turn a complete blind eye to this.

The whole situation is messed up and merkel is making it worse and worse by the day, Suicidal would be an understatement.
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Have to say i find your post hard to believe, old men hanging around kindergartens and the locals kids getting stoned and the solution is to pull the kid from school.
 
Amnesia said:
Have to say i find your post hard to believe, old men hanging around kindergartens and the locals kids getting stoned and the solution is to pull the kid from school.
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No offense meant to you bud but I honestly don't care what some forum person does or does not believe, I'm just passing along information as to what's happening in my home town.
 
Looks like Russia and the yanks have agreed a tentative ceasefire for the weekend, the yanks must be pretty positive they can exert enough influence for it to hold, I guess he who pays the piper calls the tune
 
gettothechopper said:
You have made several mistakes in your post, I will highlight them so that you can see where you went wrong:


1) David Cameron's reason for joining was: “The longer Isil is allowed to grow in Syria, the greater the threat it will pose. It is wrong for the United Kingdom to subcontract its security to other countries, and to expect the aircrews of other nations to carry the burdens and the risks of striking Isil in Syria to stop terrorism here in Britain.” It was not as you seem to think only because we alone have Brimstone.

2) The Brimstone was mentioned during the Syria debate as a direct answer to a question of how we might minimise civilian deaths or collateral damage. It was not as you seem to think the reason that we joined the coalition. But a tool that could be used if any when needed. It might be that a situation has not yet occurred where it is needed over another weapon and so it simply hasn't suited the RAF to use one yet.

3) It doesn't matter how accurate a weapon is - you need qualified targets to shoot them at. No targets may have presented themselves that required it.
It seems that the plan currently has Tornados (with the brimstones) being used in Iraq and Reapers and Typhoons being used in Syria (Reaper uses Hellfire which is similar to brimstone in some ways, Typhoon has Paveway)
It could be for many reasons that things are being used this way round - plane fuel use, endurance, time on target etc etc etc or perhaps its been decided that after the Turkey / Russia shootdown incident that the Typhoons are better equipped for contested airspace (and the Reapers are expendable)

4) The statistic from the article / Parliamentary question only targets a specific date range, Syria, and ISIS "kills" It doesn't include hits after those dates, in Iraq or strikes against non human targets.
This question shows that they have been used in Syria, upto 18th Jan, 5 had been used in Syria (I am assuming from the answer to the other question that they must not have resulted in kills)

http://www.parliament.uk/business/p...ts/written-question/Commons/2016-01-12/903067

5) The idea that you are OK with us hitting ISIS in Syria as long as we use Brimstone - but feel disgusted, outraged and lied too because we are using other weapons is hilarious

6) Calling it an "illegal coalition" is the derpiest thing I have read on here in weeks (and I have been reading the trump thread :p) so congratulations for that.
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Good points (wasted on the person you intended it for, but that is of no surprise).

Reapers are used in both countries.
 
thep02 said:
Looks like Russia and the yanks have agreed a tentative ceasefire for the weekend, the yanks must be pretty positive they can exert enough influence for it to hold, I guess he who pays the piper calls the tune
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No way Russia and Assad will stick to it imo. USA being the stupid guys again agreeing to it.
 
Amnesia said:
Have to say i find your post hard to believe, old men hanging around kindergartens and the locals kids getting stoned and the solution is to pull the kid from school.
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The way the police and media have covered up crimes committed by so-called refugees so far, I have no trouble believing it. I'm off to Berlin myself later this year, so will combine the trip with a bit of fact finding.
 
scorza said:
The way the police and media have covered up crimes committed by so-called refugees so far, I have no trouble believing it. I'm off to Berlin myself later this year, so will combine the trip with a bit of fact finding.
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I never understand this bit of the argument, if the media are covering up so many crimes by the 'so-called refugees' how come they need to fabricate half the storys the do post about them?
 
Freakbro said:
I never understand this bit of the argument, if the media are covering up so many crimes by the 'so-called refugees' how come they need to fabricate half the storys the do post about them?
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The German police said it wasn't the refugees. The Judge that dealt with them said it was and the police should be ashamed.
 
scorza said:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ccused-cover-up-sex-attacks-refugees-festival

I don't see how you can deny that there's a concerted effort to cover-up so-called refugee crimes.
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I didn't deny anything, I asked a question that confuses me about the assertion.

So, why do the media make up so many stories if there are so many true crimes to report that they are covering up?

And if the media are covering them up, how come you can keep linking up media articles about them?
 
Freakbro said:
I didn't deny anything, I asked a question that confuses me about the assertion.

So, why do the media make up so many stories if there are so many true crimes to report that they are covering up?

And if the media are covering them up, how come you can keep linking up media articles about them?
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:confused: They don't make up stories - they're always keen to downplay so-called refugee crime. You're thinking because of that one Russian girl who made stuff up aren't you?

When there were those ~1,000 cases of sexual assault, rape, robbery in Cologne on NYE it was three or four days before the media bothered to report anything about it.
 
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scorza said:
:confused: They don't make up stories - they're always keen to downplay so-called refugee crime. You're thinking because of that one Russian girl who made stuff up aren't you?

When there were those ~1,000 cases of sexual assault, rape, robbery in Cologne on NYE it was three or four days before the media bothered to report anything about it.
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I dunno, it seemed half the stories in the Cologne thread ended up getting debunked, and even the Cologne story itself has been amended from 1000 sexual assualts/rapes to it was mostly pick pocketing with some harrassment and it was nowhere near 1000 people doing it.

So if it's all being covered up, how are you able to keep linking up stories about them?
 
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