ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

RoboCod said:
"Other entities". Heh, can't even say "Russia". :)
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France, Saudi, Qatar..... More that I couldn't be bothered to write a long list. :p

Russia isn't really relevant in that point as I'm talking about making the government look worse, not the war in general.
 
The Running Man said:
So we have all this with the UN decrying this proxy war and slaughtering the Russians for their role.

Where is the condemnation of the Syrian Rebels after they have turned off the water in an act of sheer terrorism against their own people?

It's no wonder that the Assad forces are having to hurry up and push the rebels back, how else are they going to turn back on the water?
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This is what annoys me a fair bit. Look up a Russian news article and they talk about supposedly 'moderate' rebels turning the water off for the west of the city and comparing it to acts the Nazis did during their sieges of Russians cities. And yet it was in retaliation for the bombing of water plant by the Russian and Syrian forces.

How is it one can be condemned in the harshest way possible and the other ignored? Something you are also doing. Not forgetting the firebombing with use of incendiaries, barrel and carpet bombing they are being hit with. Is it really a surprise they'd react with this act of 'terrorism'?

You're right, the western media is running a single narrative but don't pretend for a second the Russian state backed media isn't also. Having a fairly free press we can also change the channel to get a different perspective too.
 
Washout said:
This is what annoys me a fair bit. Look up a Russian news article and they talk about supposedly 'moderate' rebels turning the water off for the west of the city and comparing it to acts the Nazis did during their sieges of Russians cities. And yet it was in retaliation for the bombing of water plant by the Russian and Syrian forces.

How is it one can be condemned in the harshest way possible and the other ignored? Something you are also doing. Not forgetting the firebombing with use of incendiaries, barrel and carpet bombing they are being hit with. Is it really a surprise they'd react with this act of 'terrorism'?

You're right, the western media is running a single narrative but don't pretend for a second the Russian state backed media isn't also. Having a fairly free press we can also change the channel to get a different perspective too.
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It is kind of hard to go along with his perspective while there is documented proof of the Syrian government using incendiary and cluster type munitions over the last few days with a certain amount of disregard for civilian collateral.
 
Washout said:
This is what annoys me a fair bit. Look up a Russian news article and they talk about supposedly 'moderate' rebels turning the water off for the west of the city and comparing it to acts the Nazis did during their sieges of Russians cities. And yet it was in retaliation for the bombing of water plant by the Russian and Syrian forces.

How is it one can be condemned in the harshest way possible and the other ignored? Something you are also doing. Not forgetting the firebombing with use of incendiaries, barrel and carpet bombing they are being hit with. Is it really a surprise they'd react with this act of 'terrorism'?

You're right, the western media is running a single narrative but don't pretend for a second the Russian state backed media isn't also. Having a fairly free press we can also change the channel to get a different perspective too.
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No my point is why is the media making this a one way deal? The guardian even mention 2 million going without water in Aleppo but they don't mention who turned the water off...

The rebels are not fit to run the country and couldn't if they tried. So why even bother with some media whitewash of the actual events.

We get the stories about incendiaries and bunker busters yes, it's bad. But we get told this the facts about the water get omitted purposefully. That's quite sad for a free media as no uk news narrative actual mentions or makes a big deal out of this, and it is a big deal.

None of the U.K. Papers provide the conclusion that the war is unwinnable and that even if a win could be achieved how Syrian future could look better or different to that of Libya or Iraq...
 
So your issue is that the media isn't reporting fairly, not that the Syrian regime and Russians are indiscriminately laying the city to waste?

Wow.
 
StriderX said:
So? Its a Syrian problem, being dealt with by Syrians.

As it should.
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So you're also content that Assad is bombarding innocent civilians?

I guess the Americans shouldn't have intervened in WWII either then?

Truly shocking attitudes on this forum.
 
The US didn't intervene in WWII because of humanitarian reasons, they themselves were attacked. They were quite happy to sit things out until then.
 
RoboCod said:
So your issue is that the media isn't reporting fairly, not that the Syrian regime and Russians are indiscriminately laying the city to waste?

Wow.
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So you don't think it's an important point that the rebels turned off the later to 1.5 million people?

Imagine it was the other way around! The headlines would be 'RussiNs and Assad attempted murder of 1.5 million women children in Aleppo'

Assad is getting bored of these games now. The rebels hide and seek amongst the people has gone on for too long. Interestingly when you watched panama a tonight and it showed the inside of the houses of the people in Aleppo they were pretty decently furnished, they were not exactly living like the taliban in backwateristan. Life was decent under Assad, they had cities, trade, business, progress and a future.

These rebels have taken this away and will do worse if they get into power.
 
Jokester said:
The US didn't intervene in WWII because of humanitarian reasons, they themselves were attacked. They were quite happy to sit things out until then.
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I know, but besides the point, they apparently should have just stayed in their own country and not interfered.
 
The Running Man said:
So you don't think it's an important point that the rebels turned off the later to 1.5 million people?

Imagine it was the other way around! The headlines would be 'RussiNs and Assad attempted murder of 1.5 million women children in Aleppo'

Assad is getting bored of these games now. The rebels hide and seek amongst the people has gone on for too long. Interestingly when you watched panama a tonight and it showed the inside of the houses of the people in Aleppo they were pretty decently furnished, they were not exactly living like the taliban in backwateristan. Life was decent under Assad, they had cities, trade, business, progress and a future.

These rebels have taken this away and will do worse if they get into power.
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Yet still (!) you seem absolutely content that the Syrian regime and Russia are laying the city to waste.
 
When both sides are as bad as each other, yet our country and media (to an extent, the guardian article I read mentioned in passing it was the rebels) only appear to report the atrocities of Assad and the Russians it gets a bit boring... :(

The ridiculous tag team event at the UNSC the other day is a prime example - UK, then France, then the US going at Russia, yet at least two are helping to prolong this conflict on "our" side. International politics is basically still based on cliques. One day they may all grow up.
 
RoboCod said:
Yet still (!) you seem absolutely content that the Syrian regime and Russia are laying the city to waste.
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Not at all, but this is being heavily reported/rammed down our throats constantly.

I understand that is happening and that it is as a consequence of the rebel tactics of hiding amongst the civilians.

As I said, Assad is bored of all this. He wants to get rid of the rebellion and Isis. While we fund th rebellion and probably Isis too.

At the same time we block UN investigations on Saudi Arabia while selling them weapons so that they can bomb hospitals in Yemen,.,
 
Amp34 said:
When both sides are as bad as each other, yet our country and media (to an extent, the guardian article I read mentioned in passing it was the rebels) only appear to report the atrocities of Assad and the Russians it gets a bit boring... :(

The ridiculous tag team event at the UNSC the other day is a prime example - UK, then France, then the US going at Russia, yet at least two are helping to prolong this conflict on "our" side. International politics is basically still based on cliques. One day they may all grow up.
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UljRvLMl.jpg.png

Wishful thinking. We're realising that our interventionism is half-hearted, aimless and costing us and the people caught in the middle dearly whilst the Russians are desperate to intervene to divert from domestic policy and buttress a gormless, thieving regime. What could go wrong? Look at some of the people Putin surrounds himself with -- Bo looks like a sharp dagger by comparison. And that's before we get to China, Turkey, Iran and other regional complications -- there's no leadership, only mediocre muppets that happened to be in the right place at the right time. With the hegemon weakening, everyone's a player now, but it's not poker they're playing.
 
ThestigGT999 said:
what's your views on israel bombing palestine?
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Off topic.

I wonder what the views in here would be if the west suddenly decided to flatten raqqah to kill a few ISIL. Lord, could you imagine the circle jerk the likes or you, RaohNS and Co would have, posting links about the war mongering, baby killing West targeting innocent civilians... I mean they admitted to accidentally killing just a few Syrian Army and you were all chomping at that.

It's quite hilarious.
 
Caged said:
lol
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Well, there's always hope :p

datalol-jack said:
UljRvLMl.jpg.png

Wishful thinking. We're realising that our interventionism is half-hearted, aimless and costing us and the people caught in the middle dearly whilst the Russians are desperate to intervene to divert from domestic policy and buttress a gormless, thieving regime. What could go wrong? Look at some of the people Putin surrounds himself with -- Bo looks like a sharp dagger by comparison. And that's before we get to China, Turkey, Iran and other regional complications -- there's no leadership, only mediocre muppets that happened to be in the right place at the right time. With the hegemon weakening, everyone's a player now, but it's not poker they're playing.
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It doesn't help that Syria is one of the last Russian allies in the region and Putin is not going to let him go without a fight. On the other hand if the west can get the rebels in I guess there is hope they can control them enough to be pro west. They certainly aren't going to be pro Russia, which is probably just as important.

As you say, unfortunately the pawns stuck in the middle don't seem to be seen as important on either side.
 
The Running Man said:
Not at all, but this is being heavily reported/rammed down our throats constantly.

I understand that is happening and that it is as a consequence of the rebel tactics of hiding amongst the civilians.

As I said, Assad is bored of all this. He wants to get rid of the rebellion and Isis. While we fund th rebellion and probably Isis too.

At the same time we block UN investigations on Saudi Arabia while selling them weapons so that they can bomb hospitals in Yemen,.,
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Rebels hiding in what's left of the city are obviously going to be mixed up with civilians. Doesn't mean you can fire bomb a whole street to get to them. Too many children are being killed. It's sick.

The Russians deserved to get chewed out in the UN meeting. The destruction and killings of those aid workers and that aid was disgusting. Coming so soon after the mistaken bombing of the Syrian forces it comes across as nothing more than a petulant middle finger to the rest of the world.

Funding isis too?! That's a bit much. The main aim of the west is their destruction, that's clear. Although I don't doubt there are times when even isis are being used as pawns in the international games that are being played.

I will certainly agree that SA make for very uncomfortable bedfellows. We turn the blind eye because simply our economies are built on their oil so we must, whilst no doubt trying to keep a reign on things.

One more reason I wish the west would hurry the step towards green sustainable energy sources for both vehicles and energy. Even if climate change wasn't a factor the mess of the middle east is reason enough. If we only needed oil for plastics etc the world would hopefully be a better place.
 
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