ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

You won't convince the pro dictators here otherwise. They seem quite content with all that.

Because bombing nations with freedom works so well

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https://petapixel.com/2016/08/02/26-photos-show-war-changed-syria/

You won't convince me that using a chemical weapon is worse than using a bullet or a missile or a depleted Uranium shell because I think they're all equally bad but hey keep on throwing around insults without actually offering anything of substance to the discussion if it pleases you, there's far worse things in the world to worry about than a modern day village idiot
 
because we ask why would assad do that when he is winning the war and he has everything to lose and nothing to gain from it you call us pro dictators ?
how about you provide some proof that he did the chemical attack rather than childish insults

Eh situation with Assad is far from assured - that earlier picture does have a point - his forces are nothing like they were and then you have the actions of Turkey that might make him uneasy, things with Israel aren't exactly great and there is a lot of pressure within Iran to draw down and even Russia could reduce its support for various reasons all of which Assad probably has on his mind - that is even assuming he directed or had any direct connection to it - it could be forces who tacitly had the go ahead for extreme use of force and with access to such weapons thought they were OK'd to use them, etc. this isn't a scenario like the UK's military, etc.

There are many reasons why regime forces might be eager to finish the job.
 
Russia straight up lied claiming there was no chemical attack (guess they hired a bunch of amazing child actors to fake being gassed) yet the west hating morons still believe russia and claim its a false flag. Its hilarious and depressing.
 
Eh situation with Assad is far from assured - that earlier picture does have a point - his forces are nothing like they were and then you have the actions of Turkey that might make him uneasy, things with Israel aren't exactly great and there is a lot of pressure within Iran to draw down and even Russia could reduce its support for various reasons all of which Assad probably has on his mind - that is even assuming he directed or had any direct connection to it - it could be forces who tacitly had the go ahead for extreme use of force and with access to such weapons thought they were OK'd to use them, etc. this isn't a scenario like the UK's military, etc.

There are many reasons why regime forces might be eager to finish the job.

ok so you say they were eager to finish the job..then lets think about this logically. Isis are pretty much beat according to the Russians so the war is almost won, Trump announces that the US forces are pulling out so the support the rebels have been getting is going to be further diminished.
How on earth does launching chemical weapons help since it will stop the US leaving, rebels will get more support again and other countries will now want to come and fight them ?
 
Russia straight up lied claiming there was no chemical attack (guess they hired a bunch of amazing child actors to fake being gassed) yet the west hating morons still believe russia and claim its a false flag. Its hilarious and depressing.

who are the west hating morons ?
and do give examples of their hate, dont worry i wont be taking it as a personal insult if you include me but if you do then please quote some hate from me towards my own country.
 
guess they hired a bunch of amazing child actors to fake being gassed) yet the west hating morons still believe russia and claim its a false flag. Its hilarious and depressing.

OK pretend your Assad on the verge of winning. Knowing full well what a chemical attack will entail.

"Hmm, I know what sounds like a good idea, lets do another chemical attack".

What an amazing strategic move don't you think?
 
ok so you say they were eager to finish the job..then lets think about this logically. Isis are pretty much beat according to the Russians so the war is almost won, Trump announces that the US forces are pulling out so the support the rebels have been getting is going to be further diminished.
How on earth does launching chemical weapons help since it will stop the US leaving, rebels will get more support again and other countries will now want to come and fight them ?

You assume they thought the US was actually leaving, especially Trump who often does one thing and says another.

They are already dealing with ongoing threats of other countries getting involved there is nothing new there with Turkey's recent actions something of a wildcard as to their true intentions and extent of them and France has been for some reason going into attack dog mode lately - not sure why other than some of their citizens being killed in Syria I'm not really upto speed on that angle.
 

What is that supposed to mean? we've seen Trump do things like this only to change his mind a few days later, etc. so many times. IIRC he almost immediately authorised the deployment of an additional 2000 troops to the region after that announcement as well which sends somewhat mixed signals - albeit sometimes you have to temporarily boost numbers in cases like this to facilitate a safe staggered withdraw.

Especially with Trump no one is going to seriously think they are pulling out until significant numbers are actually leaving.
 
ok so you say they were eager to finish the job..then lets think about this logically. Isis are pretty much beat according to the Russians so the war is almost won, Trump announces that the US forces are pulling out so the support the rebels have been getting is going to be further diminished.
How on earth does launching chemical weapons help since it will stop the US leaving, rebels will get more support again and other countries will now want to come and fight them ?


Hours after the attack, the Army of Islam rebel group agreed to surrender the town and evacuate their fighters to rebel-held northern Syria, Syrian state media reported. The group also agreed to give up its prisoners, a key demand of the government.

Cause it works they haven't been able to take the town for days one big attack including chlorine which they've been using regularly and they surrender
 
Cause it works they haven't been able to take the town for days one big attack including chlorine which they've been using regularly and they surrender
How is it working where as before they were fighting rebels backed by US and now they will be getting attacked by US directly. i dont see it the way you do at all.

surely it would just be easier to play nice until the US leaves
 
What is that supposed to mean? we've seen Trump do things like this only to change his mind a few days later, etc. so many times. IIRC he almost immediately authorised the deployment of an additional 2000 troops to the region after that announcement as well which sends somewhat mixed signals - albeit sometimes you have to temporarily boost numbers in cases like this to facilitate a safe staggered withdraw.

Especially with Trump no one is going to seriously think they are pulling out until significant numbers are actually leaving.

You wont understand this if you only watch Western MSM, but Syria is WINNING. ISIL are almost defeated there. What's left is direct conflict between nations (and negotiation with Kurds). Do you suppose Syria is looking to attack any of its neighbours? Because that's pretty darn unlikely.

Also, don't know what "especially with Trump" is supposed to mean. His support base is pretty in favour of withdrawal and it's part of what he campaigned on. He's more likely to withdraw than Hillary would have been or Obama was.
 
If the chemical attack was perpetrated by the Syrian regime, do people here think that "The West" should intervene militarily? (strikes against the targets and assets used to deliver the chemical weapons?)

I think there's a good argument to take action, provided chemical weapons were definitely used by the accused.

My opinion is that it would have to be a genuine question on your part. I don't mean to be facetious - what I'm saying is I don't envisage any plausible scenario where the USA / UK invade Syria for the purpose of preventing tragedies like this. We are right now tolerating mass starvation in Yemen in a famine caused by a regime which we have kept in power and to which we sell the weapons they use to kill these people. If we shake hands with those who kill millions, do you honestly believe that we would ever invade a nation over the killing of a hundred? The only scenarios in which the UK and USA will invade Syria are ones of power and self-interest. In which case, it is not feasible to my mind that we would improve things. I mean the situation there is in large part the fault of US interference. So I regard the question of whether the USA would help matters for altruistic reasons as not merely hypothetical but contradictory. I don't believe your question can be answered in any way that is compatible with the reality of the situation.


 
War is ugly, these were journalists shot up by an Apache, do you think while they were being murdered in cold blood they were thinking "boy I'm glad I'm not being gassed and they're being honourable by shooting us with projectiles"

When these scumbag rebels which WE (the west) armed and trained are using civilians as human shields, how in the hell do you expect any military to engage them without any collateral damage ?

Not to mention there's currently ZERO evidence which said it was the SAA who used the chemicals as opposed to Rebels using them in order to keep their buddies in the fight

How do you fight an enemy that locks people in cages and uses them as shields without collateral damage ?

As for the question of evidence and who you choose to believe, that's up to you - but I think you'd be pretty naive (and stupid) to believe anything the Syrian army says whatsoever, it's not like they're renowned for being a bastion of truth, there's enough good documented evidence that shows them lying through their teeth time and time again.

From a military perspective, any response would probably be geared towards taking out assets, such as suspected chemical weapons caches, airfields, aircraft, hardware used to deliver chemical weapons etc, basically things that can be used to deliver chemical weapons would be targeted, rather than taking on infantry - probably using tomahawk cruise missiles.

Personally I couldn't care less if an entire hospital was gassed, we (the UK) shouldn't be involved in Syria at all. If the US want's to stomp around the place, funding and arming the various Jihadist groups they used to be bombing and generally ballsing up yet another country then so be it, let them get on with it. Why the hell do we have to get involved?

I don't believe you when you say you couldn't care less if an entire hospital was gassed, I think that's just internet "I don't give a ****" bravado, I don't really think you mean it, not if you were forced to sit and think of it, or witness it happening.

The questions is - is there ever a time where someone who has the skills and capabilities to intervene, should do so? or is it acceptable to never intervene at all, ever. To the point where inaction essentially gives the green light to someone like Assad and whoever is propping him up, to use any means necessary to delete his enemies, including crimes against humanity and mass genocide, presumably - you'd be willing to sit by and watch hundreds of thousands of people be exterminated, before lifting a finger?

On the question of why we (UK) should be involved, I think any action that is taken - has to be done so as part of a coalition, it has to be a joint response, we can't just expect the US to do everything, every time - we should pony up the effort and take part. It's the responsibility of being an ally, and I think there comes a point where a line gets crossed and there's a responsibility to enforce real consequences, consequences that would make such a regime stop and think in future.
 
You wont understand this if you only watch Western MSM, but Syria is WINNING. ISIL are almost defeated there. What's left is direct conflict between nations (and negotiation with Kurds). Do you suppose Syria is looking to attack any of its neighbours? Because that's pretty darn unlikely.

Also, don't know what "especially with Trump" is supposed to mean. His support base is pretty in favour of withdrawal and it's part of what he campaigned on. He's more likely to withdraw than Hillary would have been or Obama was.

There is a difference between having won and winning - its been more than 7 years of an exhausting and brutal conflict that has left Assad at times clinging on by the skin of his teeth and a lot of his resources spent and even now victory is by no means assured even with regime forces largely on the front foot. Iran's involvement is starting to lose support at home with a lot of domestic fallout over the cost in lives and money which will definitely be on Assad's mind (loss or reduction of support there would be significant) and even though he is starting to stabilise things around the capital region he has a massive task stabilising the rest of the country even with the main back of rebel forces broken and then he has to keep in mind what is happening with people like Turkey and Israel, etc. all of which will be putting pressure on him. (Turkey for instance is building up significant bases around Murak - 125km further into Syria than Afrin - for whatever purpose).

I take it you've not paid much attention to Trump then? :p he has been consistently inconsistent and several times, without much consistency, gone against his support base. Saying he is looking at and/or ordering the military to look at a drawdown in Syria doesn't mean anything until its actually happening.
 
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How is it working where as before they were fighting rebels backed by US and now they will be getting attacked by US directly. i dont see it the way you do at all.

surely it would just be easier to play nice until the US leaves

But they aren't and they haven't been for months if doing it have they?

This only got in the news cause of the spy stuff recently.

"Oh but America will destroy them now!!!!" It's done nothing Israel fired some rockets of which only 2 hit.


They took the town and litteraly nothing has happened as a repercusssion the USA won't do anything that can't be fixed in a few days (Oh no a few holes one runway that's them out of action for a couple of hours) equipment destroyed? Meh the new shipment is already sailing from russia.

America is toothless here they aren't starting world war 3 over Syria's.

I mean apply your logic elsewhere.


Israel is "winning" against Palestine so why would they anger the world by building more illegal settlements wouldn't it be easier to jist play nice?

No because there is no repercussions if you're backed by a superpower which Syria now very firmly is jist like Israel is.
 
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