ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

[omnomnom]

Just remember this was a 15 year old girl who was groomed and sold a lifestyle. People are impressionable at this age. This was never going to go her way because she is no longer a British citizen so the bigger question is why does one person have the power to do that?

This month Britain's youngest terrorist was in court. At 13 years old he had material about how to create explosives and was recently found guilty, at the age of 16, of 10 counts of possessing terrorist material and 2 counts of disseminating terror documents. He didnt even get jail...

She was stripped of her citizenship without trial...

 

[Noxia]

Just remember this was a 15 year old girl who was groomed and sold a lifestyle. People are impressionable at this age. This was never going to go her way because she is no longer a British citizen so the bigger question is why does one person have the power to do that?

This month Britain's youngest terrorist was in court. At 13 years old he had material about how to create explosives and was recently found guilty, at the age of 16, of 10 counts of possessing terrorist material and 2 counts of disseminating terror documents. He didnt even get jail...

She was stripped of her citizenship without trial...

Is this bait or are you actually sympathizing with her? Honestly it's hard to tell on GD. I'm not sure how that whataboutism is even relevant.

 

[omnomnom]

Is this bait or are you actually sympathizing with her? Honestly it's hard to tell on GD. I'm not sure how that whataboutism is even relevant.

There's no sympathy but I believe if you commit a crime you should be tried in court

You don't think it's alarming that someone can just strip someone of their citizenship?

If someone from let's say Syria commits a crime similar to what I mentioned (which didn't get a jail term) would you be calling for their deportation?

 

[Noxia]

There's no sympathy but I believe if you commit a crime you should be tried in court

You don't think it's alarming that someone can just strip someone of their citizenship?

If someone from let's say Syria commits a crime similar to what I mentioned (which didn't get a jail term) would you be calling for their deportation?

No I don't find it alarming at all in this instance . I do believe that any foreign person (by which I mean not born here, not a child of immigrants born here and raised) charged on terrorism offences should be deported yes, just as I believe the 13 year old should be jailed. I was pretty baffled by that ruling.
I do get where you're coming from, I just feel like once you go down that path there should be no leniency.

 

[Mekrel]

There's no sympathy but I believe if you commit a crime you should be tried in court

You don't think it's alarming that someone can just strip someone of their citizenship?

If someone from let's say Syria commits a crime similar to what I mentioned (which didn't get a jail term) would you be calling for their deportation?

They didn't strip 'someone' of their citizenship though, did they? The government didn't wake up one morning and say 'Oh, let's just strip one one random person of their citizenship because of the lols'. When I was a teenager, I made lots of mistakes - I once played truant from school and set fire to my books on a derelict housing estate. I also once tried smoking weed. I never once stole my siblings passport in order to join a murderous cult.

You're making excuses for someone's conscious decision. At her age she is absolutely culpable for her responsibilities and choices. She was a teenager, not a toddler.

I find it extremely distasteful people try to stick up for this girl. At her age I was very much aware of the latest news and she would have been aware of the atrocities being committed by Islamic State. There were widespread headlines about beheading of Western Hostages in 2014, a year before she decided to flee.

Honestly, I do wonder what decision process happens in your head that makes you supportive of this person? Why do you absolve this person of responsibility?

Do you have the same opinion of Salman Abedi? If not, why not? At the age of 16 he was fighting in Lybia and 6 years later committed a terrorist attack. As a teenager, should he be forgiven for fighting for terrorist organisation considering the LIFG he fought for are a banned organisation?

Or is it a case of 'herp derp, the Guardian told me I should be sympathetic to this person because feelings'?

 

[Freddie1980]

ITV manged to film her walking through the camp where she is being held. Talk about a transformation, she's gone full traditional Islamic garb to leggings, make-up and sunglasses.

 

[Hellsmk2]

There's no sympathy but I believe if you commit a crime you should be tried in court

You don't think it's alarming that someone can just strip someone of their citizenship?

If someone from let's say Syria commits a crime similar to what I mentioned (which didn't get a jail term) would you be calling for their deportation?

Her crimes were committed in another country. Why should she be given a trial in the UK?

If I shoot someone in the US, do you think the US will send me back to the UK to stand trial?

 

[Freddie1980]

There is no guaranteed right to citizenship in the UK and it can be taken from you it at anytime regardless if your born here or a naturalised citizen.

 

[Clearcut]

 

[Dolph]

And that's that for this one. She can stay there and rot.
https://news.sky.com/story/shamima-...ght-citizenship-decision-court-rules-12229270

That's not actually what the judgment is about, although it may contribute to that end result. She can still challenge the removal of her citizenship, she just has no right to do it in person, which is what this case was about, whether she could enter the country for her citizenship case.

It's a complicated one as well, with a distinct balance to be struck between rights and responsibilities involving her, and rights and responsibilities involving protecting others from her. Ultimately it boils down to whether our responsibilities to try to rehabilitate her (which is what should happen where possible to anyone who has been brainwashed into making terrible decisions) is greater than our responsibilities to keep everyone else safe from the evil ideology she believes in (and she clearly does, because when she was first found, before her citizenship was stripped, she was still spouting it publicly, it has been hidden, not removed, in interviews since then), given that we don't have to allow her back as she isn't stateless. This is especially relevant as, if she was back in the UK, she'd have much easier access to communicate and spread beliefs here than she does where she is now.

I do generally lean towards keeping her out, but it's not a slam dunk, the argument is much more nuanced than both sides often make.

 

[beachBOYken]

Great news, made my day.


But but she was only 15 and groomed, blah blah blah.

 

[danoliver1]

 

[The Running Man]

As a child and early teen, sure we loved to play 'war', we had dens, envied air soft guns etc.

At no point did we ever think, let's go abroad and fight for a terrorist group beheading people and killing others based upon racial prejudice.

So leave the, 'she was sold a lifestyle' at the door.

What lifestyle did she want? Jihadi bride? Not exactly a noble cause me thinks..

 

[mysticsniper]

They didn't strip 'someone' of their citizenship though, did they? The government didn't wake up one morning and say 'Oh, let's just strip one one random person of their citizenship because of the lols'. When I was a teenager, I made lots of mistakes - I once played truant from school and set fire to my books on a derelict housing estate. I also once tried smoking weed. I never once stole my siblings passport in order to join a murderous cult.

You're making excuses for someone's conscious decision. At her age she is absolutely culpable for her responsibilities and choices. She was a teenager, not a toddler.

I find it extremely distasteful people try to stick up for this girl. At her age I was very much aware of the latest news and she would have been aware of the atrocities being committed by Islamic State. There were widespread headlines about beheading of Western Hostages in 2014, a year before she decided to flee.

Honestly, I do wonder what decision process happens in your head that makes you supportive of this person? Why do you absolve this person of responsibility?

Do you have the same opinion of Salman Abedi? If not, why not? At the age of 16 he was fighting in Lybia and 6 years later committed a terrorist attack. As a teenager, should he be forgiven for fighting for terrorist organisation considering the LIFG he fought for are a banned organisation?

Or is it a case of 'herp derp, the Guardian told me I should be sympathetic to this person because feelings'?

By that logic you think that the 14 and 15 year old girls in Rotherham that were groomed, raped and abused deserve what they got because they drank the alcohol and took the drugs?

Great news, made my day.

But but she was only 15 and groomed, blah blah blah.

Sadly these comments were the same as those of the Rotherham police officers the time. Shameful

 

[robfosters]

If she came back and faced charges, you’d be lucky if she did 6 months in prison with our justice system. Then she’d be out and free to get on with her life, unlike the poor souls she watched while they had their heads hacked off and tossed in rubbish bins.

She made her choice in life, now she has to live with the consequences. **** her

 

[Minusorange]

At no point did we ever think, let's go abroad and fight for a terrorist group beheading people and killing others based upon racial prejudice.

ISIS aren't racists, they're religious fanatics

 

[Mekrel]

By that logic you think that the 14 and 15 year old girls in Rotherham that were groomed, raped and abused deserve what they got because they drank the alcohol and took the drugs?



Sadly these comments were the same as those of the Rotherham police officers the time. Shameful

Your comparison is offensive to the girls who were abused in Rotherham. Begum is nothing like them, she left on her own free will and was neither plied with alcohol nor drugs. If someone contacted you as a 15 year old over social media to go join a murderous cult by flying 1000s of miles, would you just up an go? I highly doubt you would.

Funny how people conveniently forget Begum left with two other girls, one of which was the daughter of Abase Hussen who attended rallies by Anjem Choudary.

 

[Dis86]

ISIS aren't racists, they're religious fanatics

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Minusorange]

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Not sure what you're trying to say, but ISIS don't kill people because of the wrong skin colour, they kill people because they don't follow the Quran

Unless you're confused between what is an Arab and what is a Muslim, then I could see why you might think ISIS are racist

 

[Amnesia]

By that logic you think that the 14 and 15 year old girls in Rotherham that were groomed, raped and abused deserve what they got because they drank the alcohol and took the drugs?

I see where you're coming from and it does come across as a double standard but those other girls that were groomed do not pose a threat to us, this moron does.

 

[Dis86]

Not sure what you're trying to say, but ISIS don't kill people because of the wrong skin colour, they kill people because they don't follow the Quran

Unless you're confused between what is an Arab and what is a Muslim, then I could see why you might think ISIS are racist

Suggest you look up the definition of racism.