It finally happened!

Oakesy2001uk · 27 Sep 2006 at 23:45

SP30 arrived at my door today. Turns out it was on my way back from my jaunt to scarbourgh.
The annoying thing is it was 44 in a 30 :eek:

(child killer!!!).

I remember seeing a few camera's but no flashes, I'm always extra carefull in towns and 30 limits, its not the place for speed.
I dont know where it was really, might ask for a photo see if I can clear it up, may have been a confusing speed limit. I was riding in a group of 6 riders and dont remember getting split up for any legnth of time, no-one else has heard anything :confused:

Its my first 3 points in 3 years, so not too bad, Just wondering if anything will come of this court case now

andy2k · 28 Sep 2006 at 03:15

Court case IIRC its >46 in a 30 for court action. So why would you need to go?

Oakesy2001uk · 28 Sep 2006 at 08:46

andy2k said:
Court case IIRC its >46 in a 30 for court action. So why would you need to go?

no not me in the court case, mine was just an SP 30, but yesterday there was a human rights case wasn't their, about scamera's abusing them. I dont know much about it, and nothing will probably come of it but might wait and see what happens.

Not really worth the hassle mind, its only my first 3, take them on the chin I suppose, but I might ring and ask for the evidence as I honestly don know where it was!

D4VE · 28 Sep 2006 at 09:15

andy2k said:
Court case IIRC its >46 in a 30 for court action. So why would you need to go?

I got done for 47 in a 30 when I was 18 and I didnt go to court. Maybe things have changed since then though.

Oakesy2001uk · 28 Sep 2006 at 09:59

D4VE said:
I got done for 47 in a 30 when I was 18 and I didnt go to court. Maybe things have changed since then though.

sorry I should have made it clearer, I dont have to go to court, just the 3 points for me and £60. I was joking about waiting for the outcome of the speed camera's vs human rights case that started yesterday.
Im just going to wait for the photo evidence (ring them later) and if all is well with that take it on the chin. But I dont remember doing it and I never knowingly go that fast in 30 limits.

Some interesting articles here - http://www.motorcyclenews.com/speedcameras
Mostly the "how to reply to your NIP so the police cannot prosecute you." and the "How to check your speed from a Gatso picture" pretty interesting stuff, sounds like a lot of hassle though!

Jez · 28 Sep 2006 at 11:23

again... www.pepipoo.com

Go to the forums and get the PACE thing, and then send it via special delivery 2 days before the 28 are up.

I was sceptical, but it has worked twice for me now, as it has for others on this forum too.

Oakesy2001uk · 28 Sep 2006 at 11:32

Jez said:
again... www.pepipoo.com

Go to the forums and get the PACE thing, and then send it via special delivery 2 days before the 28 are up.

I was sceptical, but it has worked twice for me now, as it has for others on this forum too.

I was wondering about this, but now I am hinking it might be a good idea if people on here have had success. You reckon I should wait 2 days before the 28 then send it special, why? Surely it makes little difference, or is it on a timeout so I need to drag it out for as long as possible?

Do I then get threatening letters that I have to ignore or what? dont really fancy a court date.

Jez · 28 Sep 2006 at 12:00

Oakesy2001uk said:
I was wondering about this, but now I am hinking it might be a good idea if people on here have had success. You reckon I should wait 2 days before the 28 then send it special, why? Surely it makes little difference, or is it on a timeout so I need to drag it out for as long as possible?

Do I then get threatening letters that I have to ignore or what? dont really fancy a court date.

The ticket expires 6 months and 28 days from the date of offence. To be honest i dont see any real advantage of sending it as late as possible as legally there is little they can do to prosecute you if it was a GATSO that photographed you, it was just what everyone on the pepipoo forums seemed to recommend so i just followed it. You must send via either special or recorded though in any event for obvious reasons, and make sure that you print the dated signature which royal mail will post for your tracking number once the police have received it - just to avoid any arguments later with regard to them actually receiving the PACE statement.

Once you have the signature that the PACE reply has been received, completely ignore everything. In both my cases they have sent a 2nd NIP, followed by 2 reminders accompanied with more NIP's, and then have stopped contacting me. One has now expired completely and the other i havent heard from in months and is due to expire at the end of this month i believe.

Worth a go, you have nothing to lose

The worst case is that you go to court with failure to comply with road traffic act s172 (naming the driver), which you will get off with thanks to copies you took of your PACE document and the proof that it was received on time at the address stated on the original NIP.

Oakesy2001uk · 28 Sep 2006 at 12:04

Jez said:
The ticket expires 6 months and 28 days from the date of offence. To be honest i dont see any real advantage of sending it as late as possible as legally there is little they can do to prosecute you if it was a GATSO that photographed you, it was just what everyone on the pepipoo forums seemed to recommend so i just followed it. You must send via either special or recorded though in any event for obvious reasons, and make sure that you print the dated signature which royal mail will post for your tracking number once the police have received it - just to avoid any arguments later with regard to them actually receiving the PACE statement.

Once you have the signature that the PACE reply has been received, completely ignore everything. In both my cases they have sent a 2nd NIP, followed by 2 reminders accompanied with more NIP's, and then have stopped contacting me. One has now expired completely and the other i havent heard from in months and is due to expire at the end of this month i believe.

Worth a go, you have nothing to lose The worst case is that you go to court with failure to comply with road traffic act s172 (naming the driver), which you will get off with thanks to copies you took of your PACE document and the proof that it was received on time at the address stated on the original NIP.

Might give this a go then, sounds ok to me! dosent sound like it will get me in too much trouble if it went boobies up.

Jez · 28 Sep 2006 at 12:10

If i were you i would have a good old read of the forums in any event mate, most of it is very good advice and usually worth following. Look for threads where people have actually posted the outcome, as it gives you a better idea on what works and what doesnt.

The most important thing of all, is not to take any of what the police send you too seriously. On all of my NIPS and reminders there have been mentions of huge fines and other nonesense, they will send you multiple reminders of how serious it is and how you will be executed if you dont reply and how naughty you are. Its all bluff, the cps know they dont have a case, and will try and scare you into paying.

To be fair to the cps it does work, i bet 90% of people reply with their credit card details as soon as they read about the fine, or even if they are cheeky i bet they pay as soon as the scary reminder comes through with yet more threats. In reality a GATSO NIP is almost completely unenforcable as the law stands.

Oakesy2001uk · 28 Sep 2006 at 12:29

Jez said:
If i were you i would have a good old read of the forums in any event mate, most of it is very good advice and usually worth following. Look for threads where people have actually posted the outcome, as it gives you a better idea on what works and what doesnt.

The most important thing of all, is not to take any of what the police send you too seriously. On all of my NIPS and reminders there have been mentions of huge fines and other nonesense, they will send you multiple reminders of how serious it is and how you will be executed if you dont reply and how naughty you are. Its all bluff, the cps know they dont have a case, and will try and scare you into paying.

To be fair to the cps it does work, i bet 90% of people reply with their credit card details as soon as they read about the fine, or even if they are cheeky i bet they pay as soon as the scary reminder comes through with yet more threats. In reality a GATSO NIP is almost completely unenforcable as the law stands.

I presume it was a gatso, it was just an SP30, and it said we have photographic and/or radar evidence, as I dont remember getting flased seeing a camera I dont know where it was!
I'll have a read of the forums.
Are some authorities worse than others? I got caught a long way from home in humberside. I'll have a read and see what happens.

Jez · 28 Sep 2006 at 12:34

I think they vary a bit but they are all subject to the same laws so the PACE should stand anywhere in england/wales. I believe it only differs in scotland. As i say have a read. Mine were in somerset and wiltshire.

If you dont know what it was then this will be a problem, if there is a photo of you driving the vehicle then it wont work and you will get identified in court from that. AFAIK the only way round a photo of yourself is to not name the driver and go the S172 route (they will prosecute for this first, then speeding, obviously speeding charge will automatically fail if they dont succeed on 172), and then get yourself represented in court to get around the visual ID issue.

GATSO's dont pose this problem as they take a rear facing photo, so the driver cannot be determined by the photo. You can ask for the photograph, but legally they do not have to supply that until you go to court, obviously that will be too late as you wont know which route to take.

Oakesy2001uk · 28 Sep 2006 at 12:52

Jez said:
I think they vary a bit but they are all subject to the same laws so the PACE should stand anywhere in england/wales. I believe it only differs in scotland. As i say have a read. Mine were in somerset and wiltshire.

If you dont know what it was then this will be a problem, if there is a photo of you driving the vehicle then it wont work and you will get identified in court from that. AFAIK the only way round a photo of yourself is to not name the driver and go the S172 route (they will prosecute for this first, then speeding, obviously speeding charge will automatically fail if they dont succeed on 172), and then get yourself represented in court to get around the visual ID issue.

GATSO's dont pose this problem as they take a rear facing photo, so the driver cannot be determined by the photo. You can ask for the photograph, but legally they do not have to supply that until you go to court, obviously that will be too late as you wont know which route to take.

I was on my bike so was leathered up and in my helmet. There is a small problem of me having OAKESY written on the back on my leathers, but I was wearing a bag at the time so would be unlucky if that is shown. Might change my velcro letters to something less incriminating when I get home!

I have one of each letter what should I write!

I think I will ask for the evidence, I can still do the PACE thing after I have seen the picture cant I as long as it dosent incriminate me? I will ring them later and ask for the picture.

Jez · 28 Sep 2006 at 13:01

You can ask but i would be suprised if they give you the photo.

It sounds as if PACE will be fine anyway, as if you were on your bike then it must have been a rear facing camera anyway, and as you say, in leathers they cant see anything.

Oakesy2001uk · 28 Sep 2006 at 13:29

Jez said:
You can ask but i would be suprised if they give you the photo.

It sounds as if PACE will be fine anyway, as if you were on your bike then it must have been a rear facing camera anyway, and as you say, in leathers they cant see anything.

might be worth asking just to delay them a bit, then send the pace. Must have been rear facing, but if my bag was sitting low and they could see the oakesy on the top of my back that would narrow matters down a bit :mad:

I think I will reply in writing asking for the photo's then regardless of wether they get back to me or not I will send a pace within 28 days. Is it 28 days of the date on the letter?

Jez · 28 Sep 2006 at 14:35

I dont think the jacket will have any bearing at all mate

Oakesy2001uk · 28 Sep 2006 at 14:38

Jez said:
I dont think the jacket will have any bearing at all mate

cool, I suppose anyone could choosee to call themselves oakesy!

Damn my expensive named leathers!
I asked on pepipoo, and if I ask for the photo evidence they wont give it. But if I ask for it to try and identify the rider they will. So I will send a letter to this effect. Then if everything is in order I will send the Pace, Do I send everything recorded, is a recorded orange slip enough to put the ball in their court? I want to keep hold of everything just in case it all goes wrong and I end up in court! :mad:

Jez · 28 Sep 2006 at 14:46

Take copies of everything. Send either special delivery or recorded signed for delivery. On both methods royal mail post a scan of the signature along with the confirmed date and time of delivery. Just print this, it proves when it was definately received their end

Oakesy2001uk · 28 Sep 2006 at 14:59

Jez said:
Take copies of everything. Send either special delivery or recorded signed for delivery. On both methods royal mail post a scan of the signature along with the confirmed date and time of delivery. Just print this, it proves when it was definately received their end

do you get this scan on the web or do you have to ask and recieve it after delivery?
Sorry for all the questions, dont want to get it wrong and end up in cort!

Jez · 28 Sep 2006 at 15:18

Its available on the web if you track the parcel