IT Industry - Systems/Server/Network/Technical

Ex-RoNiN · 27 Feb 2006 at 23:27

Specialist jobs like these are, as I said in the other thread, on the decrease.

IT is no longer about "who has the skills?" but about "what can we do with these skills?"

A modern IT degree will teach you how to teach yourself to acquire a new language or technology. The real knack is in using that knowledge to do something worthwhile with it.

That's why all big IT multinationals don't mention any specific technologies in their assessment centres. Its about the business knowledge and understanding the market needs of tomorrow, and how you can use IT to prosper the business.

IT Support and Programming are to Computer Science what Plumbers are to Civil Engineering. That's the way its going I'm afraid.

Overload · 27 Feb 2006 at 23:30

BoomAM said:
Ive gotta admit, im starting to wonder if it was wise for me to go in the direction i am going.

What else were you considering?
Currently I haven't a clue which way to go with my career. I was thinking about IT industry but recently I had thoughts about others. This thread also makes me thinks IT is not a wise idea.

I'm feeling a bit :confused:

.

oldbag · 27 Feb 2006 at 23:45

I've seen C++ and Java jobs advertised for fairly good money. I'm willing to bet that in the next 10 years, IT Support (under whatever guise it's labelled as) will dwindle. IT Support jobs will be rare. Maybe programming is the way to go.

I think the cisco stuff pays more since there is no pretty gui containing a button which reads, 'Generate IPSEC config with the correct crypto', etc.

I guess it's inevitable, the easier the OS becomes, the less skills will be required, hence no reason to pay the big money. The skills will be when everything goes badly wrong, but there will be out-sourcing companies with specialised consultants (managing many clients) ready to go, if they're not already there.

BoomAM · 27 Feb 2006 at 23:54

Overload said:
What else were you considering?
Currently I haven't a clue which way to go with my career. I was thinking about IT industry but recently I had thoughts about others. This thread also makes me thinks IT is not a wise idea.

I'm feeling a bit .

I wasnt considering anything to be honest.
My original plan was a NatDip in electronics & microprocessors, and then a HND in computing. To give me a balanced outlook on problems. With the NatDip giving me a low-level view of things, and the HND giving me a more generalised view of things. And then go onto be a techy.
But techy jobs ive recently found out are badly paid. And even the lucky ones dont get all that much.
So the only other realistic option is teaching. But im not overly struck on that option.

caff · 28 Feb 2006 at 00:42

Best bet for IT work is to get into a consultancy role. Harder work, but the pay is better and the skills you pick up are more marketable. Also, if you specialise in one particular area, it can mean good money, but obviously you might limit yourself.

I don't regret getting into IT, the wages are better than most jobs. You have to push yourself / be pushed to get anywhere though.

BoomAM · 28 Feb 2006 at 02:06

What is ment by IT Consultancy, and how would i go about getting into it?

Is it simply people coming to you with a budget & system/s in mind, and you basically spec everything up for them, do system analysises on it, cost reporting, ect; ?

MikeTimbers · 28 Feb 2006 at 12:39

Main requirement for a career in Consultancy is being damn good at powerpoint, knowing how to suck up to the boss, ensuring you only work on successful projects for successful managers and generally work your backside off. If you do the above, you get promoted rapidly and if you don't you'll be quietly encouraged to leave after a few years.

Cynical? See what others say and then decide.

What it should be is being genuinely knowledgeable with deep experience, able to understand a business need and produce an IT solution which is cost-effective, reliable, performant and cheap to run. What it seems to be is tell the client he can have whatever he wants, let the client change his mind whenever he wants, deliver what the client said he wanted and take the money and run like hell when the client says that isn't what he meant.

Visage · 28 Feb 2006 at 12:53

MikeTimbers said:
Main requirement for a career in Consultancy is being damn good at powerpoint, knowing how to suck up to the boss, ensuring you only work on successful projects for successful managers and generally work your backside off. If you do the above, you get promoted rapidly and if you don't you'll be quietly encouraged to leave after a few years.

Cynical? See what others say and then decide.

What it should be is being genuinely knowledgeable with deep experience, able to understand a business need and produce an IT solution which is cost-effective, reliable, performant and cheap to run. What it seems to be is tell the client he can have whatever he wants, let the client change his mind whenever he wants, deliver what the client said he wanted and take the money and run like hell when the client says that isn't what he meant.

Its both those things to be honest. I was a consultant for one of the Biggies for about 6 years straight out of uni - first 2 years were on a graduate scheme.

For a company of that size they wouldnt even touch a project unless they can squeeze 40% profit out of it, and you dont get that by being nice to the customer. You get it by doing things like offering them cut-rpice contracts up front, with heavy long term loading (big rates for support, enhancements etc).

So thats why consultancyu gets a bad rap. But still companies use them, simply because, even with that kind of profit being made, its still cheaper than doing thinsgs in house. Cosultancies make their money from selling people, and thats where the money is. SO, to be a succesful consultant you need to be able to convince a compnay that they can sell your skills for at least 100% more than they're paying you....

VeNT · 28 Feb 2006 at 12:58

tbh I'd kill to know what qualifications to get or go for to get a good job in IT, I've been self employed for two years now and it SUCKS

Visage · 28 Feb 2006 at 12:58

BoomAM said:
What is ment by IT Consultancy, and how would i go about getting into it?

Is it simply people coming to you with a budget & system/s in mind, and you basically spec everything up for them, do system analysises on it, cost reporting, ect; ?

It can be anything you want, to be honest. Typically there are two main strands - business consultancy (sometimes called management consultancy), and technical consultancy. Some companies, such as IBM, do both.

The first is basically 'How can my business do better?' The consultants will look at the company, its competitors, its processes, basically every way it does business, and will create a report on how they can do better. Oftentimes this report will reccomend technical improvements (New IT systems). This is where the combined consultancies win - they can work with the technical in-house staff to scope and quote a system to meet the (percieved) needs of the customer (with a hefty markup)....

Visage · 28 Feb 2006 at 13:00

VeNT said:
tbh I'd kill to know what qualifications to get or go for to get a good job in IT, I've been self employed for two years now and it SUCKS

Depends - do you want to be a Helpdesk/cable monkey? If so, learn how to replace toner cartridges and sneer condescendingly.

If its something such as programming, either do a numerate/analytical degree if you're young, or teach yourself some languages if you're older.

ReevO · 28 Feb 2006 at 13:00

i've decided to slightly change my carrer path from 1st\2nd line support to outsourcing and network implementation and there seems to be a lot of money around if you know the right areas and companies to get into,

ive just jumped from a 19k a year 1st/2nd line job to a 25k systems engineer, and theyve said that when i've completed my MCSE they will up that to 30k,

but whilst looking i saw an awful lot of CCNA required jobs and they are paying anything from 40k to 80k,

the cisco stuff is not that difficult it just requires a bit of thought and understanding, it's definatly the next qualification im going for

VeNT · 28 Feb 2006 at 13:09

Visage said:
Depends - do you want to be a Helpdesk/cable monkey? If so, learn how to replace toner cartridges and sneer condescendingly.

If its something such as programming, either do a numerate/analytical degree if you're young, or teach yourself some languages if you're older.

gah hate programming (did pascal at college).

I'm thinking of doing the CCNA (and progressing up that route) but I'm not sure if it is worth it

Visage · 28 Feb 2006 at 13:14

The only issue i would have with CCNA is that its very much in demand at the moment.

Hence CCNA folk can charge accordingly. But, in the same way that 10 years ago HTML writers were top of the tree, and 5years ago Java was the thing to have, it will pass. What differentiates successful folk from the crowd is the ability to continuously re-educate themselves, so they're always in demand.

So by all means go for CCNA, but keep one eye on the future....

CLAWS · 28 Feb 2006 at 14:31

ITIL would be another qualification to get. Even the ITIL foundation certificate gets you lots of interviews, as Ive found out

BoomAM · 28 Feb 2006 at 15:21

What qualifications or career paths can i progress to from a HND: Computing?

Bes · 28 Feb 2006 at 17:59

Well I have only just started in the world of consultancy. It is certainly a good choice if you are looking for a decent salary and a nice steep increase in earnings (I know some 26/27 year olds on over £50K + substantial bonuses at my company...)

All that's needed to get such a role is a decent degree from a reasonable university, (I got a first in Computing from Sheffield Hallam which isn't exactly a difficult thing for the average person to do) and a good interview technique.

However, you have to be prepared to work HARD if you want to progress and earn the big bucks. You also have to know how to handle your clients/ keep them happy etc. I haven't seen any of this massive over- promising/ overselling and underdelivering that some people talk about in my company but I can fully believe it happens!

Also many consultancy roles can mean spending long periods of time away from home and a lot of travelling. If you don't think you'll like this it's not for you! For example, in my role I am currently working out in South Africa for Vodacom, and I am suspecting I will need to travel to either Europe or the States shortly after I return on Saturday- very tiring and sometimes you miss home, but at the same time you also get to see the world and get paid for it! Not all roles require you to travel quite so far- and a lot will be UK only, but it is still something to bear in mind.

Another advantage of consultancy is that you often get trained/ experience on a lot of 'hot' IT subjects (and get certificated/ officially qualified for free) which can make you extremely employable if you ever want out of consultancy!