IT Support...

MagicBoy said:
The support bods are right in that you can't run an in place upgrade from 32-bit to 64-bit. Depends on how the environment is configured as to how much ballache it'll be re-installing Windows then the apps and all the settings that come with it manually.

I can kind of see the point they're making. You're looking at £120+ on a Windows license....
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You can use the existing license for moving from 32 to 64x.

We have the same issue where around 400 PCs are on 32 bit and it's a right pain for my GP's especially folder redirection's etc.

Would you be allowed to re-image the machines yourself? I would reply to that support email, it's insane as i assume your company pay a support fee annually. Even if the work takes x amount of days, this shouldn't factor in as they're paid to do this.
 
In my opinion they are trying to fob you off, I think they just can't be arsed to do a site visit for the work
 
tribz said:
How on earth did you end up with less than 2 year old PC's running 32 bit Windows 7?
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JoeF1 said:
You can use the existing license for moving from 32 to 64x.
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If they are "business" OEM PCs such as HP ProDesk or Dell Optiplex, then you can request older versions of Windows through Downgrade rights. If indeed they are, then it's a case of Ringing HP/Dell and you can probably obtain the x64 install disc at no cost (and it will work with the BIOS embedded Windows activation)
 
Armageus said:
If they are "business" OEM PCs such as HP ProDesk or Dell Optiplex, then you can request older versions of Windows through Downgrade rights. If indeed they are, then it's a case of Ringing HP/Dell and you can probably obtain the x64 install disc at no cost (and it will work with the BIOS embedded Windows activation)
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Yeah on the older processors we can downgrade from 10 to 7 etc with the same license too. Shame Dell have stopped the older Gen processors so its forcing us up to Win10.
 
tribz said:
How on earth did you end up with less than 2 year old PC's running 32 bit Windows 7?

I can sort of see their point (and yours also!) as they are low spec low cost machines. Keep in mind its end of support in 18 months for Windows 7.
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At the time of purchase and install we had a piece of management software that only ran on 32 bit OS. We have now replaced that software

MagicBoy said:
The support bods are right in that you can't run an in place upgrade from 32-bit to 64-bit. Depends on how the environment is configured as to how much ballache it'll be re-installing Windows then the apps and all the settings that come with it manually.

I can kind of see the point they're making. You're looking at £120+ on a Windows license, and probably the same again in labour for each machine to get them upgraded and configured. Plus the downtime of losing the workstation. You could invest that £240 into new hardware that has Windows 10 64-bit already licensed and installed and incur less downtime.
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We're a charity and I have oodles of windows 7 licences 32 bit and 64 bit that we got for peanuts under a MS scheme ages ago
 
Armageus said:
If they are "business" OEM PCs such as HP ProDesk or Dell Optiplex, then you can request older versions of Windows through Downgrade rights. If indeed they are, then it's a case of Ringing HP/Dell and you can probably obtain the x64 install disc at no cost (and it will work with the BIOS embedded Windows activation)
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No, they were just custom built jobs from a local company, and I already had licences for windows (as in my above post)
 
Oh and the server is already 64 bit (I just checked earlier)

The only programs on 7 / 8 machines would be MS Office (or not much else) mine being the 8th has Sage accounts and payroll
 
Freakbro said:
I know a lot of you work in IT support in one form or another, so I just want to run this past you.

One of the places I work part-time uses an outsourced company for their IT support (Hardware/Software support)

We have about 8 PCs, running Win 7 32 bit, and 1 Server running Windows Server 2012 64 bit

I have just enquired with the IT support company about upgrading the PCs to 64 bit windows (as the lack of ram with 32bit is causing issues) and their reply was



Really? :confused:

Is it really more cost effective to buy 8 new work PCs than get someone to reinstall 8 workstations and set the domain logins up again etc.

That seems crazy if thats the case....
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Sounds about right.

Having worked for an MSP before, we had field based 'technical consultants' who would attend site a number of times per month/year, depending on the contract level purchased - they would be the ones to do the sort of work you quoted; and I'd imagine that they might charge a couple of day's consultancy - that could be ~£2000 +vat. With some desktop machines only costing a couple of hundred quid, there might not be too much difference between chargeable work and new kit.

I guess it also depends on the level of support they offer, vs the level of support you have purchased form them - sounds like you might just have 'helpdesk' type support; so anything above this, would call into the lucrative (for them) "chargeable work". Your MSP want's to make money, so suggesting your purchase new hardware (likely sourced by them) will be a bonus for them - they might even offer a 'discount' on the on-site work, as a sweetener on the top. But they should be careful not to push too much - as you machines are pretty new, they are perfectly suitable to re-use for 64bit.

To me though, it seems a daft suggestion - yes the move from 32 to 64 would need an o/s reinstallation, but adding the machine to the domain can be done in a minute, migrating data over is a little more difficult though; you've also got the "will it won't it work" with any applications you have - I'm guessing there was a reason for going 32bit in the first place?

Ultimately, they support you, and will have to do as you say - just try to get more information on their suggestion, and then compare the costs for hardware they suggest vs their fees for updating your existing kit; remember there may also be licensing costs to factor in also.
 
Scort said:
Sounds about right.

Having worked for an MSP before, we had field based 'technical consultants' who would attend site a number of times per month/year, depending on the contract level purchased - they would be the ones to do the sort of work you quoted; and I'd imagine that they might charge a couple of day's consultancy - that could be ~£2000 +vat. With some desktop machines only costing a couple of hundred quid, there might not be too much difference between chargeable work and new kit.
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I bought 2x computers for work that came with Windows 10 and a 24" Acer monitor for £250 + VAT so I guess that could be right that it's cheaper just to buy new PC's

They weren't amazing, but they do what we need:
  • Intel Pentium J3710 1.6GHz
  • 4GB RAM + 2TB HDD
  • DVD Writer + WIFI
  • Windows 10 Home
  • Includes 24 Full HD Monitor
 
Scort said:
To me though, it seems a daft suggestion - yes the move from 32 to 64 would need an o/s reinstallation, but adding the machine to the domain can be done in a minute, migrating data over is a little more difficult though; you've also got the "will it won't it work" with any applications you have - I'm guessing there was a reason for going 32bit in the first place?
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Yes, it was a piece of management software, but we have moved on from that now and use a cloud based one.

Ultimately, they support you, and will have to do as you say - just try to get more information on their suggestion, and then compare the costs for hardware they suggest vs their fees for updating your existing kit; remember there may also be licensing costs to factor in also.
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I have 50 licences for Win 7 64 bit (a few less for the 32 bit now :p) and the only real software on the machines is MS Office (apart from mine)

The server holds all the data (everyone's docs points there) and is 64 bit already.

Jeez, I could do the installs myself and I know roughly how to reconnect to the domain (haven't done it in a while though). I used to maintain the network a few years ago before we got these guys in, but it was smaller and hadn't been tweaked as much as it is now.
 
I'd agree with the support company.
When you consider that it's going to cost you the downtime + the support hourly rate, that could easily be £150+ per hour. How long does it take to backup a workstation, reinstall the OS, configure, install apps, etc? It'd only need about 2 hours per workstation to break even against new hardware (which then has the added benefit of a fresh warranty).
 
We would do it if that's what you wanted to do but would push for new PCs instead. We would probably charge you a days labour as it would be a reconfiguration and not included in the maintenance contract. Ideally, we would want access on a weekend so we could get them all going at the same time instead of working around you and doing one at a time. I can't see why your support company isn't jumping at the chance for some easy money as it really shouldn't be hard to reimage 8 PCs and install any apps you use. However, with an entry level Vostro/Optiplex desktop being around £300, it probably wouldn't cost you much more to replace them and have better spec machines with a full warranty.
 
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JoeF1 said:
You can use the existing license for moving from 32 to 64x.
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I know, aware of that. Depends what licenses type they currently use. I'm assuming Windows 10 if new are required as they stopped selling Windows 7/8 licences a couple years ago, and 7 is due to go out of extended support in Jan 2020.

Freakbro said:
I have 50 licences for Win 7 64 bit (a few less for the 32 bit now :p) and the only real software on the machines is MS Office (apart from mine)
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As above, the keys work across both architectures.

You've got 18 months until Windows 7 is out of support and won't get any further security updates.
 
Those PCs might be two years old, but those Pentium G's you're using are from 2011! We encounter them from time to time and they are awful CPUs! I probably wouldn't bother upgrading those PCs, Windows 10 will run terribly on those...

If I worked for that IT company, I'd be telling you the same thing out of politeness rather than telling you just how rubbish those PCs are. That's probably why they've said what they've said. Who'd want to spend time and effort upgrading what are effectively terrible PCs only to then have to deal with call after call of constant "the PC has frozen, this is slow, that's not working" etc? I know I wouldn't...
 
Hmm i can see there point actually.

That spec of pc will see very little benefit going to x64, ok putting in more ram will of course help and will of course need x64 but they also are hamstrung by a particularly rubbish cpu.
To be honest i dont see the time and cost of moving these to x64 and adding ram to be worth it, i would simply buy a new pc with the baws to do the job.

I presume you would want windows 10 x64 (as earlier windows versions are now going out of support) - that cpu is not great on 10 as its such a low spec you really need to get modern boxes.
Agree with some of the others, this is a costly exercise in terms of time (hours per box easily if stuff needs backed up, apps play up ect) and ram costs.
I wouldnt expect a support company to provide this as part of the service contract either so it could be hundreds per box when you can replace a box for less or similar.
 
Freakbro said:
I have 50 licences for Win 7 64 bit (a few less for the 32 bit now :p) and the only real software on the machines is MS Office (apart from mine)

The server holds all the data (everyone's docs points there) and is 64 bit already.
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These are quite key bits to be honest, no data backup/restore saves masses of time and if they only really run Office then it's just a basic Windows install with Office package and domain adding then it shouldn't be too lengthy.

I assume your current IT contract is FWB (Fix when broke) and as this is a request for additional work they would want to charge you extra (They are a business after all).

Also depending on your contract they may not support you if you just go out and buy 8 new PCs and add them to the network without consulting them 1st.
 
What exactly is it that is needing more ram?
Now i know 4gig is puny these days but for windows 7 32 and and old version of ms office (which i presume you have) then its more than adequate, an SSD would make far more sense and need far less work to have fitted.
 
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