Jacob Blake

[dowie]

Was reluctant to post this one but it is an interesting one in terms of how things can be stretched in the current climate from limited info and a viral video only showing part of an incident into outrage and rioting/local businesses burned down. This is the incident that started several days of rioting in Kenosha.

Below is part of a post that went a bit waffly in the Trump thread - please try to keep any Trump/US politics discussion in there, this is intended to be more about the incident itself and how it gets reported, social media and reaction on the streets etc...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jacob_Blake

A black alleged "rapist" or alleged sexual assualter (technically he'd previously "raped" the victim by forcably penetrating her with his finger, in front of their child) turned up at his victim's house armed with a knife (she's also his on off GF and "baby momma") while still wanted by police(outstanding warrant for sexual assault, domestic abuse) and stole her keys... he goes outside, police arrive and there is a scuffle, they scuffle with him on the grass at the rear passenger side of the car, then he pulls the knife and they get back from him, they try a taser... doesn't work...then he goes around to his car and opens the door - from the POV of the officer (given this is the US and guns are everywhere and he's only just pulled a knife on them) they don't let him go any further and shoot him 7 times in the back as he reaches into the car.. no gun is found.

Was it excessive - sure, perhaps it was, perhaps a second taser could have been deployed, perhaps an officer could have taken a greater risk with the presence of a knife and tackled him... (do they absolutely have to take a risk like that though when they have firearms?). This guy is now hospitalised and potentially paralised from the waist down.

The way it was portrayed though was the usual rush to outcry - the clip shown was a viral one only showing the later part of the incident on the driver's side of the car - all we see is him moving around to open his car door and the police officer shooting him in the back.. out of context it looks horrific. Twitter blows up, celebrities tweet it - another example of racist policing - here this is another completely irrelevant clip of the cops conducting a traffic stop on an angry white person notice how he doesn't get shot.... therefore racism.

The media certainly doesn't help matters, ket bits of info are omitted or drip fed post outrage - outrage is better for news events. With the interviews of his family being presented the way they were plenty of people were left with the impression that he'd been killed by the police... "say his name" etc.. certainly the fact he was a sex offender and domestic abuser turning up at his victim's address wasn't very prominent as that does undermine the narrative, that he was armed with a knife was left ambiguous too - drip fed as a knife being found in the car... (eagle eyed social media users spotted he was seemingly carrying it in the video footage days ago) the more pertinent detail that it was found in the car because he'd pulled the knife out when struggling with officers and still had it in his hand when going back and reaching into the car was left out still initially... it has only come out now not because of information from the local prosecutor but because the police union has confirmed it.

He was originally handcuffed to his bed in hosptial, this got some negative publicity (though apparently is standard there), he's now not as the warrants are not in force thanks ot him posting a bond (presumably from the donations that have flooded in) - one dubious aspect of this, now this guy is a celebrated victim of police brutality is the awkward nature of his outstanding charge for sexual assualt - will there now be presure on a sexual assualt victim to drop the charges so Jacob Blake can carry on being held up as a victim or will they drop him quietly and no longer say his name?

So far over 2 million dollars have been raised on gofundme for a domestic abuser/sexual assualter who turned up to his victim's house with a knife - someone who abuses women shouldn't ordinarily be a SJW cause celebre but sometiems it seems things are so far gone that the identity politics part is more improtant to some than his actions - he wasn't some random person who happened to be black, the police were called by the victim specifically to deal with him and knew he was wanted:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/justiceforjacobblake

Even gofundme is political now - the unhinged LARPer cop wannabe kid who shot three had his fundraiser pulled pretty quickly by the site... his is hosted on some conservative christian fundraising site.

Initial footage released:

Second angle:

How CNN portrays the second angle/additional footage:

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2...g-second-video-family-attorney-newday-vpx.cnn

 

[dowie]

But not that reluctant, because you did.

Are you going to start a thread for every shooting in America ?

Gets boring fast

Don't read it then... no one forced you to read it or comment. There are plenty of other threads to read.

 

[dowie]

These groups are simply using black people being shot by police as an excuse to bring the country to ruins and take over.

Pretty much, given the prevalence of mobile phones then no matter what police reform occurs or how much things improve (and they have improved over time regardless) - with a big population of hundreds of millions and the presence of guns and armed criminals inevitably there will be incidents where people are shot by the police, inevitably some of these people will be black and that fact alone can be enough to make the clip go viral and generate outrage... there isn't an obvious end to that - this race baiting can carry on regardless of whether there is even is any real underlying race issue re: police shootings, it just requires people to perpetuate the dubious perception that there is and to get angry about the perceived issue.

This article sums it up quite nicely - reactions to these events/riots are the result of perceptions (not exactly helped by the media in the US) - so long as the US is a gun country then the risk of this sort of inteaction is always there along with the chance of it being filmed, going viral and playing into this perception.

https://www.city-journal.org/reflections-on-race-riots-and-police

First, America is a huge country—the third largest in the world by population. That means that extremely low-probability events (such as police shootings) will happen much more frequently here than they do elsewhere. For instance, if America were the size of Canada, but otherwise identical, about six unarmed people would have been killed by police last year, not 55.

Second, America is a gun country, which makes policing in America fundamentally different than policing in other nations. When cops pull someone over in the United Kingdom, where the rate of gun ownership is less than one-twentieth the American rate, they have almost no reason to fear that the person they’ve stopped has a pistol hidden in the glove compartment. That’s not true in America, where a cop gets shot just about every day. So long as we are a gun country, American police will always be liable to mistake a suspect’s wallet or smartphone for a gun. And we will not be able to legislate that fact away—at least not completely.

A third factor (not unique to America) is that we live in the smartphone age. Which means that there are millions of cameras at the ready to ensure that the next police shooting goes viral. Overall, this is a good thing. It means that cops can no longer reliably get away with lying about their misbehavior to escape punishment. (And that the claims of those accusing police in such situations will face objective video scrutiny.) But it also means that our news feeds are perpetually filled with outlier events presented to us as if they were the norm. In other words, we could cut the rate of deadly shootings by 99 percent, but if the remaining 1 percent are filmed, then the public perception will be that shootings have remained steady. And it is the public perception, more than the underlying reality, that provokes riots.

Combine all three of these observations and one arrives at a grim conclusion: as long as we have a non-zero rate of deadly shootings (a virtual certainty), and as long as some shootings are filmed and go viral (also a virtual certainty), then we may live in perpetual fear of urban unrest for the foreseeable future.

 

[dowie]

So far the only people who claim he had a knife on him are the police, and iirc they're saying it was in the car.
I don't know about anyone else here, but I currently have several "knives" in my car, I have two in the front of the car in case of a need to cut the seat belt, and another in the boot.
Having a knife in your car means zero, as most trades people/handy people, or even just people who like me find the need for one will have them.

That isn't correct, they're saying he had it on him, thus the bit in the clip where they step back, draw guns etc..

The point re: the car isn't really what was eventually found in there - of course there was a knife found if it was in his hand, but what he might have pulled from the car given it is the US (where a cop is shot nearly every day) and given that he's already been willing to pull a knife - how do they know he won't now pull a gun and can they easily tackle him given he currently has a knife and the taser has failed?

Perhaps it was still excessive force but I don't think this is a particularly bad example given the non compliance, struggle with the officers trying to restrain him and attempt to use non-lethal force first.

That you also have a knife in your car isn't particularly relevant, the context is entirely different - your knives are incidental and have a completely different purpose, this knife is a weapon he had in his hand.

That you've skimmed over this detail is a good illustration of the dubious reporting, drip feeding of information about a story like this.

Even if you do as they say in the US, you're likely to get shot.

Completely flase, you're very unlikely to be shot, very few police encounters result in shootings, even non-compliant suspects can still be unlikely to be shot. This is a misconception, probably down to these outlier incidents getting lots of attention. You're incredibly unlikely to be shot if you do what they say... it's possible but it certainly isn't likely.

They're poorly trained and all too often resort to using guns as their first and only option, and do it out of all proportion when dealing with black men.

Poorly trained (relative to UK and other European police) yes, that they do it out of proportion when dealing with black men - that's dubious... given they're dealing with a suspect I'm not sure there is any good evidence to suggest that if that suspect is black they're more likely to be shot.

 

[dowie]

Like this guy?
[...]
IIRC he's been charged for "resisting arrest" despite the fact until the officer drop kicked him he wasn't, and it turns out they attacked the wrong man (they thought he was someone with a warrant out but didn't bother to check before attacking).
I guess he should be lucky that he wasn't summarily executed for having had some speeding tickets in the past, or a pen knife in the car.

Not really no, I mean you’re cherry picking outliers, this is exactly the point made before. He isn’t lucky for not being summarily executed, being shot by the police is a rather rare event and in most cases tends to involve being an armed and/or violent criminal... as per the case in this thread (which incidentally didn’t result in the death of the suspect).

 

[dowie]

I think she would rather have a son that wasn't paralysed for the rest of his life...

Perhaps she would also rather have had a son who didn’t abuse his ex girlfriend nor sexually assault said GF in front of her grandkids and later, again in front of her grandkids, turn up at GF’s home armed with a knife...

But it’s all those nasty police officers fault when they get called to sort out another situation caused by this character and struggle with him, have a knife pullled on them, try to taser him... then end up shooting and wounding him.

But sure, let’s think instead of the mother.

The alleged sexual assault victim might on the other hand be reassured that her abuser who later turned up with a knife is now in a wheelchair mind.

 

[dowie]

I do wonder how many people would be rushing to defend this chap if he was a white drug dealer. Suspect nobody.

It just illustrates how far gone this "woke" nonsense is, they've got it in their heads that there is some huge issue within the black community of black people being shot and/or killed by the police, when there really doesn't seem to be at all... you're very unlikely to be shot and/or killed by the police (especially if you're not a criminal) , the way bigger risk as far as being shot or killed if you're black and live in a predominantly black area in a US city is from black criminals and even that is rather unlikely.

Whole thing is based on a total misunderstanding of risk and the increasing demonization of police officers is only going to harm these communities, the apparent Ferguson effect (police officers being more cautious about even proactive policing the area, not worth the hassle) is a possible risk, as is simply the effects of crime increasing, businesses closing, economically active people moving away etc.. The last thing the US needs in the Covid fall out is for more cities (or parts of cities) to progress downwards, Detroit style or South Side of Chicago style etc..

Not long ago there were SJWs claiming all sorts of things were "rape" and college campuses were alive with rape culutre hysteria... yet here we have an actual sex attacked and it's all "say his name" etc.. as though he's died or something.

It's up to 2.1milion. Eeek.

One thing just struck me... since she's kind of been forgotten about in all of this - the on/off ex GF who initially called the police, the "baby mama" & his sex assualt victim... there doesn't seem to be an SJW fundraiser for her... that's not part of the narrative. Is she now going to be under pressure to drop the charges? In fact... bit of a random one but you never know - it would be quite ironic if she now gets back together with him too - now he's a "hero" etc.. with 2.1 million in the bank.

 

[dowie]

Obviously the guy will have very different living expenses now but if the police are found to be at fault he'll be getting a big payoff (that will be interesting to see).

Meanwhile, plenty of homeless people are suffering who could be helped with that sort of money but no-one gives a damn about that... I mean, people can do what they want with their own money but it seems absolutely Radio Rental to me.

Well I guess he’ll not have any issues paying child support to his ex GF/abuse victim/mother of his children...

In fact perhaps she can sue him too for the sexual assault, harrasment etc...