Japanese Grand Prix 2014, Suzuka - Race 15/19

leaskovski · 7 Oct 2014 at 17:28

Malt_Vinegar said:
I remember following a Seat Leon Cupra R on an oval in a Formula car. The Seat driver was a pro racing driver, and I am a noob... He was leading me around the track going faster and faster until he maxed out, everyone else had dropped out and it was just me and him driving around. He was cocking a wheel on the corners and starting to look a bit ragged, whilst I was chilling out and following him closely.

Leading a single seater around in a normal car is far from easy, and that was on an Oval...

Now try it when the drivers are the best in the world, in some of the fastest cars in the world, in a RWD high power Mercedes road car in the wet. That is a very hard job. You are not allowed to make a mistake. I am sure that any out of work world class driver could do it, but then, an out of work world class driver is still a world class driver

Worst "I'm a great driver and should have a seat in F1" ever!!!

Malt_Vinegar · 7 Oct 2014 at 17:31

leaskovski said:
Worst "I'm a great driver and should have a seat in F1" ever!!!

I turned down the seat at Ferrari, I am concentrating on my Family

Aman · 7 Oct 2014 at 17:34

Ryan-3 said:
Driving something flat out to keep the F1 cars following at a decent speed ain't easy, and in the conditions similar to those at Suzuka it becomes very hard to do, even more so with an SLS.

Could be Buttons next drive?

Jono8 · 7 Oct 2014 at 17:43

knip said:
He's got this type of injury sadly.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffuse_axonal_injury

"Concussion may be a milder type of diffuse axonal injury.[6]"

I think the quote is "The family revealed he suffered a diffuse axonal injury and is regarded as "critical but stable". "

So we still don't know how severe it actually is

JUMPURS · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:00

howler said:
No different to going into the pits though? Pit limiter still has to be engaged

Driving the safety car is a very skilled job, would you trust anyone except a highly experienced driver to do it? They also go pretty damn quick it just doesn't look it on tv compared to F1 cars

There is one major difference. Drivers attack the pit entry and know exactly where to brake in order to be at the right speed for the pit entry line. In this case you wouldn't. Also there is always ambiguity about where the zone begins and ends. Look at brazil a couple of years back with Vettel overtaking after a yellow flag light marker, but was allowed because the actual flag station was further up the track.

You have two guys close racing, they will race up to where they think they should slow down by but wont have an accurate idea of where there braking point is. Locked wheels with collisions and offs could be quite commonplace, especially in the midfield where the cars and drivers are not the best in F1. Maldonado would be a nightmare.

Skeeter · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:06

People are just making up excuses now. These are professional racing drivers, not grandparents plowing into the back of each other on the M25.

As I keep saying, slow zones work fine in WEC and GT racing, there hasn't been a single incident of people piling onto each other because they couldn't follow what was going on.

Skeeter · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:06

Grr, dp

JUMPURS · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:25

As Gary Hartstein says above, there is already a system in place, it just isn't enforced.

Enforce the system with a few black flags and that will soon sort it.

Vertigo · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:27

Have to say I'm getting rather exasperated at all the talk about canopies, roll structures ahead of the cockpit and whatever other car modifications, both from those inside F1 and others.

The accident ripped the roll hoop clean off! No canopy would have offered any additional protection against that and a roll structure ahead of the cockpit would likely have just been torn off and ended up in the driver's face.

The only real solution here is prevention - slow the cars right down in such situations by whatever means. More flags, possibly earlier on the track might help, as might slow zones as implemented in WEC. I still maintain that they already have a system for neutralising the race and slowing everyone down and it's called the Safety Car. It should have been deployed the moment Sutil went off, given the conditions, and the fact that it wasn't was a serious mistake for which Bianchi may yet pay with his life, although I dearly hope not

JUMPURS · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:30

Why isn't two yellow flags indicating a driver 'should be prepared to stop' not a system for slowing everyone down?

Vertigo · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:32

JUMPURS said:
Why isn't two yellow flags indicating a driver 'should be prepared to stop' not a system for slowing everyone down?

Depends how it's implemented. If it's only at the specific location of the accident then drivers will come hurtling round the track and then slam on the anchors when they see the double yellows. In conditions such as those at the time of this accident, with grip limited by inters on an increasingly wet track, that's a recipe for disaster. For all we know, maybe Bianchi slammed on the brakes when he saw the double yellows and that's what caused him to lose control.

The advantage of the SC is that it applies to the whole track simultaneously and instantly. Every driver gets immediate notification and knows to slow down.

Jono8 · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:35

To be honest, it is a risky sport. There is no way (without significant technological advancement containing technologies that haven't even been invented yet) it will ever be without risk. These guys are flying around at 200mph+ in incredibly lightweight carbon fibre.

It is inventible that occasionally someone will get hurt.

JUMPURS · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:36

According to max Mosley Double yellows are supposed to have a yellow in the zone before then double yellows. Thus giving warning and opportunity to slow.

First driver to get a black flag will send a wake up call through the sport.

JUMPURS · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:36

Jono8 said:
To be honest, it is a risky sport. There is no way (without significant technological advancement containing technologies that haven't even been invented yet) it will ever be without risk. These guys are flying around at 200mph+ in incredibly lightweight carbon fibre.

It is inventible that occasionally someone will get hurt.

As Martin brundle often says its a dangerous sport and says so on the ticket.

ZG002 · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:37

Every driver could get notification on double yellow at a certain zone, introduce a max speed limit for double yellow and if any of them break that limit get real harsh! Black flag a few and they will soon learn.

JUMPURS · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:43

ZG002 said:
Every driver could get notification on double yellow at a certain zone, introduce a max speed limit for double yellow and if any of them break that limit get real harsh! Black flag a few and they will soon learn.

A speed limit would be hard to implement too. What speed limit do you give it? 100kph? Hitting the corner where Bianchi went off at 100kph could likely have caused the same impact.

So do you make it 50kph? Well do you need to make it that on a straight?

Then breaking distances also increase during wet weather, so again with the Bianchi accident, 100kph may be fine in the dry, but in the wet, not so much. So you need different limits on different parts of the track and for different weather conditions.

If only there was a rule that says you should be going slow enough you should be prepared to stop, then it would make it so much simpler.

ZG002 · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:49

Then you end up where we are now.... What is slow enough to be prepared to stop? It's open to interpretation, which we know from everything else in F1 will be pushed to the very limit and beyond.
You need a limit, Or it's safety car.

JUMPURS · 7 Oct 2014 at 18:51

No where we are now is 'be prepared to stop' isn't enforced properly. Enforce that and it will be ok.

kitch9 · 7 Oct 2014 at 19:10

Vertigo1 said:
Have to say I'm getting rather exasperated at all the talk about canopies, roll structures ahead of the cockpit and whatever other car modifications, both from those inside F1 and others.

The accident ripped the roll hoop clean off! No canopy would have offered any additional protection against that and a roll structure ahead of the cockpit would likely have just been torn off and ended up in the driver's face.

The only real solution here is prevention - slow the cars right down in such situations by whatever means. More flags, possibly earlier on the track might help, as might slow zones as implemented in WEC. I still maintain that they already have a system for neutralising the race and slowing everyone down and it's called the Safety Car. It should have been deployed the moment Sutil went off, given the conditions, and the fact that it wasn't was a serious mistake for which Bianchi may yet pay with his life, although I dearly hope not

I've just seen phone camera footage of the crash as it happened and it's clear as day.

No amount of roll cages would have helped. My God it was horrendous. The car went under the back of the 15 tonne JCB at high speed and the bumper of the thing was at perfect eye level height...

I'm amazed he's still alive.

Glaucus · 7 Oct 2014 at 19:19

Just to back up what skeeter said earlier. hulk has said double yellows clearly viable and green flag was not visible from where he went off.