Jermey Clarkson - The Good The Bad and the Ugly

Gibbo said:
Hi there

So top speed makes a car faster?

Gearing of cars is done to best compliment their engines. You can't just gear an M3 the same as an Elise as the end result would no doubt be too much wheelspin. Thats why Mustangs come with very long gearing or else the torque would just smoke the rears constantly.


You say an M3 would beat a Mustang overall based on build quality, reliability, comfort, performance, economy and prestige.

Build quality I will agree with you as a high-end BMW and especially an M car are of very high quality. Reliability sorry I don't agree on that, there is nothing to go wrong on a Mustang, its a smallblock V8 Ford have used for a very long time, the car has no over advanced electronics, it uses a live axle, there is basically very little to go wrong on a Mustang. No huge servicing cost, just oil change every 12,000 miles and thats about it. Wheras the M3 has more technology then you can shake a stick at and as such many more things to go wrong. Comfort thats a hard one, driven M3's and been a passenger. I own a Mustang and have been in others and to be honest I can't put one higher than the other. Now performance, well the base Mustang is practically as quick as an M3, pretty much nothing in it and as soon as you move onto a Roush or Saleen, its bye bye M3. A guy tried racing me in an M3 within seconds I'd pulled bus lengths on him. Thats 530BHP, 510Lb-Ft and the fact my car weighs less against his 344BHP with no torque heavier car.

You say a decent Supra would kick the Shelby's but, well I've driven a Supra and stock they are crap. So by decent I assume you mean modified, so in thats case lets just modify a Mustang and kick that Supra's butt all over the place. You cannot replace displacement and the Mustang has a lot more over a Supra and I believe the Mustang weighs less too.

You say the Americans cannot build a sports car, then explain the Corvettes, the Ford GT and Race Mustangs?
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1. no, just showing that the bmw is geared for road use not track... the race BMW's are geared differently for the track! They can still drive fine without loads of wheelspin.

2. And of course your 550bhp car is a stock mustang ;) ahem! In a drag race, even I would bank on the Mustang over the M3!

3. Ditto the Supra - As for kerb weights, Supra RZ 1510kg's Mustang GT500 1781kg's (from fords website you pointed me to) and the supras weight is lower down! The stock supra motor can take best part of 800bhp without changing any internals, I am guessing the mustang could take similar

4. No I said they cannot build them like the europeans and japanese, Live axle! Leaf Springs! Weight... Weight is the main enemy of cornering, as you have to overcome more centripetal forces with every KG...

Performance per £ you cannot fault the americans, but stick a mustang or corvette around a tight twisty european circuit not a 26 mile one with massive straights, and the shortcomings will come out more and more..

Thruxton, Silverstone, I would go with the mustang, brands, cadwell, oulton I would be with the Euro sports car...

And lets not forget, the Saleen, Roushe and the Shelby are both non-standard models that are highly modified by a tuning house and then sold thru ford dealerships.. A bit like comparing an AMG/Alpina model with a stock car...

:D
 
Dr Who said:
4. No I said they cannot build them like the europeans and japanese, Live axle! Leaf Springs! Weight... Weight is the main enemy of cornering, as you have to overcome more centripetal forces with every KG...

Performance per £ you cannot fault the americans, but stick a mustang or corvette around a tight twisty european circuit not a 26 mile one with massive straights, and the shortcomings will come out more and more..
:D
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I still don't understand everyones obsession with leaf springs and live axles being OMGZOOR!!1111one crap, when setup well they work very very well, as this discussion has been had at least twice in the last few weeks I won't go into it all again

I think you'll find the corvette will beat most european sports cars round any track, quicker round the 'ring than a lot of things (also you'll find the 'vette has independent suspension all round)
 
Nitro_Junkie said:
I still don't understand everyones obsession with leaf springs and live axles being OMGZOOR!!1111one crap, when setup well they work very very well, as this discussion has been had at least twice in the last few weeks I won't go into it all again

I think you'll find the corvette will beat most european sports cars round any track, quicker round the 'ring than a lot of things (also you'll find the 'vette has independent suspension all round)
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Yes you are right, they are just as good as independent suspension...

I shall write to mclaren, ferrari, lotus, mercedes, honda, ford, opel, sauber, renault etc etc immediately and tell them they are wrong, and should stick with live axle...

Yes of course it can be made to work reasonably well, as can pretty much any old technology, but it doesnt mean that it cannot be improved upon...

And there is no way you can make a live axle as good as a good double wishbone setup..

Heck you can get multi carb setups to work as well as fuel injection as long as you are happy to balance them every few weeks

;)
 
This week's show is an American special as Jeremy, Richard and James try to prove that a fly-drive holiday to Florida would be more fun if you bought a car instead of renting one. Having picked up some wheels for no more than 1000 dollars each, the boys embark on an epic road trip to find out who got the best deal, encountering heat, flies and very angry locals along the way.
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Pretty interesting idea, I dislike the whole idea of hire cars and all the nasty penalty charges that are possible on usually very boring cars. Plus a local car helps make you a local, gangs have been known to target hire cars because of the tourist easy cash factor.

Anyway I figured it was related to this topic, will they be able to pick up anything decent at all. 1000 dollars is nothing
 
Dr Who said:
Yes you are right, they are just as good as independent suspension...

I shall write to mclaren, ferrari, lotus, mercedes, honda, ford, opel, sauber, renault etc etc immediately and tell them they are wrong, and should stick with live axle...

Yes of course it can be made to work reasonably well, as can pretty much any old technology, but it doesnt mean that it cannot be improved upon...

And there is no way you can make a live axle as good as a good double wishbone setup..

Heck you can get multi carb setups to work as well as fuel injection as long as you are happy to balance them every few weeks

;)
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because thats what I said isn't it, I never said they were the best or couldn't be improved on but they are no way near as bad as 99% of people seem to think
 
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