Job opportunity: Want a job in software engineering but lacking work experience or qualifications?

I know this is an old thread but what you say is nonsense. My friends mum learnt ton programme(self taught)when she was 39, no previous experience. 15 years later she has had a number of development jobs and she has just started a new one wheres shes on about 70k.
What you haven't told us is when she got her first job as a dev.

39 when she began to teach herself, or 44 when she had 15 years of experience behind her?

You've told us the start point and the end point, but not when she got her first job, which is fairly crucial information. I'll bet you it wasn't a couple months after deciding to become a dev.
 
What you haven't told us is when she got her first job as a dev.

39 when she began to teach herself, or 44 when she had 15 years of experience behind her?

You've told us the start point and the end point, but not when she got her first job, which is fairly crucial information. I'll bet you it wasn't a couple months after deciding to become a dev.

i believe she was 39 when she got her first job, but even if she was learning for years prior she has still done it for herself. I am not exactly sure when she started learning but what does it matter, if you put the effort in it will eventually pay off.

She learned how to programme whilst working full time in your average office admin job aswell.
 
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I am not exactly sure when she started learning but what does it matter
You replied to my post where I said that employers weren't likely to take on an older person with zero experience.

You said that was nonsense, and then gave your friend's mum as an example. You literally don't know how much experience she had when she got her first job.

Turns out you don't know that much about her situation, after all.
 
You replied to my post where I said that employers weren't likely to take on an older person with zero experience.

You said that was nonsense, and then gave your friend's mum as an example. You literally don't know how much experience she had when she got her first job.

Turns out you don't know that much about her situation, after all.

Well my point was that you can get a programming job when you don’t have commercial experience or qualifications. If you can show what you can do like she did then you will be in a good position to get a job as a junior developer like she did.
 
You replied to my post where I said that employers weren't likely to take on an older person with zero experience.

You said that was nonsense, and then gave your friend's mum as an example. You literally don't know how much experience she had when she got her first job.

He doesn't need to though, I mean just scroll back up the thread and see the reply from Burnsey who has seen hundreds of applications.

You have been overly pessimistic, claiming it took you "weeks" (plural) to get to "hello world" when that's literally something that can be done within minutes of setting up your environment and reading the first pages of a programming book.

Just look at MOOCs or bootcamps etc.. these things last only a few months - in the case of bootcamps they might be full-time over just 6, 8 or 12 weeks perhaps and people will come away with multiple projects to show for themselves. People from bootcamps can and do get hired as developers (I'm not saying they're guaranteed a job but it does happen)*.

MOOCs are part-time, few hours a week endeavours but no reason why someone can't do multiple or do them at a quicker pace than intended if they fancy spending chunks of their weekend on it instead of say just one evening a week (very possible over the summer say if you've just graduated uni with a STEM degree of you're working a random Joe job).

Lots of people need to pick up programming on the side - plenty of engineers, mathematicians, statisticians, physicists etc.. might have had very few formal lessons/tutorials in programming at university but end up working in jobs where programming takes up a large portion of their time, you just have to take the plunge and learn on the job in some cases - they're not necessarily employed as "developers" per se either - though plenty do indeed go into developer roles (it's not all CS graduates).


*also think about how long an actual CS or Software Engineering undergrad actually spends programming - their course isn't all programming, they'll have various modules covering discreet maths, databases, computer architecture, software specification, networks etc.. if you break it down and they have say one or two modules in the first year, one or two in the second year to learn how to program (and those won't necessarily be the same language - they might learn Java** or Python but also say a functional programming language**) etc.. then that might only be 2-3 hours a week over the course of 2 or 3 10 week modules. The rest of their timetable is full of all the other stuff they need to cover. Maybe some third year modules require them to apply their programming skills and maybe they spend a fair bit of time coding as part of their dissertation but it's not hard to see that it is quite feasible for a bootcamp, running full time, to cover in a couple of months almost the same amount of programming as someone with a CS degree might have, at least as far as the general skills are concerned.

** for example say they have 1 * 10 week intro to Java or Python in the 1st year + in the second year they have 1 * 10 week module going over more advanced Java or Python + 1 * 10 week module introducing functional Programming in say Haskell. They've not actually had loads of programming tuition when you think about it, it wouldn't take you long to cover as much of the basics of Java or Python as they've had.
 
I'll tell you now, you're wrong and I can tell you this after going through ~200 applications to shortlist 10.

What I'm looking for is independent, self motivated learning, curiosity, team working and evidence that you've developed yourself - which online courses are good examples of.

I can also tell you that several of the shortlisted candidates are not on their first career.

Edit: Just for any of those who applied through this thread, if you didn't get an interview, my commiserations, however, we usually take on many more than 4 trainees. The last intake was closer to 20. We had to reject candidates that would have previously been interviewed. Please apply again when we advertise, it's usually every 6 months. Just because you were rejected this time doesn't mean you won't be successful next time and you've got 6 months more to continue learning.

We weren't even looking for completed projects. We're looking for someone who has been self motivated to learn the basics from all the resources available and be able to demonstrate making mistakes and learning from them. Many of the people who impressed us don't have any code that demonstrates anything up and above their learning - it's ultimately throwaway code.

@Burnsy2023 I couldn't agree more - I work for a Salesforce partner, and there is a lack of talent in the ecosystem.

If you are self-motivated, switched on, learning mindset, understand the importance of hitting deadlines and working collaboratively then we can help develop you into a Consultant or Developer with a good wage and career prospects.

@FoxEye - if you really couldn't do any more than produce "Hello World" after that amount of time then I'd question your motivation, followed by the complexity of the language?!

As an example from my industry, Salesforce's training resource teaches you to create a "Hello World" text output page component to sit inside a CRM system (well, you could mount it externally on a website or similar with a bit of jiggery pokery, but you get the idea) in 10 minutes.
Salesforce Apex is a Java based object driven language - have a read.
https://www.cloudity.global/what-is-apex/

https://trailhead.salesforce.com/co...matic/create-a-helloworld-lightning-component

EDIT
Aura components are a bit old-hat now but you don't need to set up a specific IDE, you can just use Salesforce's inbuilt Dev Console, hence me choosing you an Aura based module.
There are also millions of existing orgs out there running on Aura (the newer version is LWC) so it's always worth knowing Aura.

Do that module and let us know how you get on!
 
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^^ Salesforce has some great tutorials, resources and learning community. I learnt it pretty quick for a new project(which sadly got canned after a few months :rolleyes:).

However it's something you can learn completely on your own. :)
 
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