Joe Calzaghe: Is he really that special (Potential legend?)

azza21

azza21

azza21

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Right do not get me wrong here, I think Joe Calzaghe is a superb fighter and definitely at this moment in time a legitimate p4p top 2/3 fighter in the world
and he deserves the recognition he is finally getting from the public there is no denying the man that.

BUT is Joe Calzaghe's resume really that good to warrant legendary status that i hear all so often...

Ok the win in 1997 against Eubank was a great win and the 11 years he has stayed
undefeated super middleweight champion is superb, but NOT GREAT.
I will tell you why :p

People forget Joe has only ever really thought in his backyard of Wales and England, until the Hopkins fight.
Yes he had a couple of phenomenal victories against Lacy and Kessler and Eubank many years ago, where he looked world class.
But in-between Eubank and Lacy (1997 - 2006) who else did Joe fight and beat that was
regarded as world class over the course of them 9 years? Mario Veit, Byron Mitchell....Come on, people.
Now blame Frank Warren for that if you like but he didn't fight any world class fighters out there in them 9 years as SM champion.
Where was the Antonio Tarvers, Glen Johnsons, James Tonney, Winky Wright, prime Bernard Hopkin, prime Roy Jones jr's of this world...
Now you go and look at these guys resumes and you tell me they do not make Joe's resume look poor in comparison.

Now in my eyes, to be a boxing great, that so many people are saying Joe will be, don't you have to beat many other great fighters
over the course of many years...not just defend your title at home against average fighters for 9 years...or am i missing something here?
Beating Lacy who was dubbed the mini Mike Tyson was impressive, specially the way Joe beat him up so badly.
Beating Mikkel Kessler who was undefeated in 43 fights the way he did was even more impressive as Kessler is a genuine
world class fighter, who himself can beat many other world class fighters.
Joe proved to the world he is a superb fighter but still all in his own backyard.

Another thing that rattles me is, Joe is a superb fighter, so why not go to America earlier in his career,
the home of Boxing and fight these great boxers...Joe was good enough.

Yes Joe is finally doing so now at 36. Yes he thought Bernard Hopkins who is 43 and some might say Hopkins is not half the fighter he once was.
Now Yes he beat the legend of Bernard Hopkins unconvincingly but Bernard Hopkins is one of the hardest fighters to break down, Joe won ugly.
Coming back from an early knock down to win a scrappy fight now that was impressive to me. The fight was close but Joe did edge out the victory.

Now Joe is fighting Roy Jones Jr, who is a LEGEND no one can doubt Roy Jones jr credentials, 4 times divisional champion is just unheard of.
Roy Jones jr is 39 now he isn't anywhere near as good as he once was, he lost 3 fights in a row (2x tarver, 1x Johnson) a few years back and now wants a crack at Joe.
Joe should easily win this fight against a shot fighter and i do not see how beating a shot or past it fighter will make his resume look any more impressive.
Why don't he fight a Pavlik, who is a younger fighter who has beaten Miranda and Taylor twice...


To be the best you have to beat the best. Quite simply Joe Calzaghe has not done that, beating Eubank, Lacy, Kessler, Hopkins over the course of 15 years and 45 fights does not make him a legend.

Joe is a superb fighter who could have gone on to be a great fighter but he chose not to be.
 
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The Glen Johnson fight was unlucky with various injuries and Winky was too small. Other than that, I agree completely. He refused to fight away from home because he was WBO champion, that held him back more than anything else in his career.
 
SpeedFreak said:
The Glen Johnson fight was unlucky with various injuries and Winky was too small. Other than that, I agree completely. He refused to fight away from home because he was WBO champion, that held him back more than anything else in his career.
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Yes mate your right about winky, he is too small, although didn't his last fight against Hopkins at 170?

As for Glen Johnson I have heard numerous stories to why Joe Calzaghe pulled out, and I'm not entirely convinced about the hands story. Also Frank knob jockey Warren said that Joe didn't want the fight. But then again Frank Warren isn't going to be to polite about Joe after, Joe doesn't want warren to be his promoter anymore.

What do you think of Joe as a boxer mate?
 
azza21 said:
Yes mate your right about winky, he is too small, although didn't his last fight against Hopkins at 170?

As for Glen Johnson I have heard numerous stories to why Joe Calzaghe pulled out, and I'm not entirely convinced about the hands story. Also Frank knob jockey Warren said that Joe didn't want the fight. But then again Frank Warren isn't going to be to polite about Joe after, Joe doesn't want warren to be his promoter anymore.

What do you think of Joe as a boxer mate?
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True, Warren has been bitter, trying to sue over a verbal agreement :rolleyes:

As for Calzaghe, he has bags of skill, but in the last few years he has been a slapper. He throws wide punches in volume, but his connections are not there. His last KO was Veit (not counting Manfredo as a fight) and that was 3 years ago. There is no directness to his work and it now comes off as a bit of a wild flurry, with little meaningful contact. I felt he was lucky against Hopkins, more that the judging suited his style, vegas always rewards those who make the fight.

In his prime I think he would have gone closer with RJJ than most (maybe only Toney to challenge), but his meaningful fights were against past it champions, or not fully blooded one. Although Kessler was a legit beating of a great fighter on top of his game.

As Calzaghe said, it's all about the money now, but Pavlik for the fans was a better fight than Roy Jones. Ironically, Jones may also stand a better chance than Pavlik against Calzaghe. No wonder Jones took the fight, a 50-50 split was a joke, Calzaghe should have had 70%, Jones is not a box office draw anymore.
 
I think you will find Roy Jones is the bigger draw. Joe Calzaghe has made THE worst decision he could have made.

Calzaghe vs Jones

Jones will win this and outclass Calzaghe big time. This also does nothing for Calzaghe's legacy as people think Jones is past it and over the hill.

Calzaghe vs Pavlik

Calzaghe wins this and would cement his legacy as Pavlik is rated very highly at the moment.


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For those who think I talk nonsense I predicted Margarito would KO Cotto. :)
 
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It seems almost as if you are asking two separate questions here. 1) Does Joe Calzaghe have the skills to be called a great? 2) Has he done enough in his career to be called a great?

My answer to 1) would be certainly. My answer to 2) is more equivocal, he has performed well enough against whoever he has faced but whether he 'ducked' fighters or whether circumstances (his hands, people reneging on deals, his unwillingness to travel or whatever) made it impossible he hasn't fought all the best in the division in their prime. I think he does class as a great but really his career should have been stellar with no questions about the status that would be awarded to him at the end of it.
 
Johnnytoxic said:
For those who think I talk nonsense I predicted Margarito would KO Cotto. :)
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You predicted a correct result what do ya want a biscuit...:p

It wasn't as if Cotto was the overwhelming favourite. Yeah Cotto is technically the superior boxer in terms of boxing skills but Margarito has a massive size advantage the bloke is 6ft and has a good reach advantage and a superb chin. I did think Cotto would win the fight but i certainly never ruled out Marg winning the fight it was a close call. Anyway Marg should be fighting at light middleweight, with people his own size. Actually more to the point why won't he give Paul Williams a rematch, i wonder... :)

As for Joe fighting Roy I think it will be tougher than most people think. Roy's hand speed is still really fast and as speedfreak said against Tito he looked impressive he will cause Joe some major problems. Roy's mobility around the ring isn't as it used to be though and I don't see Roy having the power to TKO Joe. If Roy couldn't TKO Tito then he definitely cannot TKO Joe. I think Joe will win a tough decision come fight night. I wouldn't rule out a rematch either.

I agree about Pavlik, joe fighting pavlik, i'd have much rather seen this fight and i agree it would have done much more for his legacy.
 
Pavlik is more Calzaghes weight. People are forgetting Jones is the bigger man in all of this, so he won't be gun shy in throwing any punches like he was against Tarver and Johnson who knew they could spark him out in one shot.

He won't be afraid of Joes slaps and so I think he will dominate Calzaghe.
 
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Yes he could've fought better opposition, like Taver jones Jr earlier on, toney bit of a shame he didn't, to be honest the only person I could see beating him might be Jones Jr, Hopkins ducked him earlier on and his recent victory over him was a scrappy ugly affair with Bhop cheating and just trying to spoil Joes game.

At the moment everyone is screaming for a fight against Pavlik as at the moment he's the flavour of the month, If he takes on Pavlik I think it'd play out a lot like the Kessler fight, tough but pretty convincing. After beating Pavlik everyone would be screaming for a fight with Ahraham, Then if Froch is still unbeaten it'd be a fight against him, he really can't win.

It's a shame Joe broke his his hand as that seems to have stopping him hitting as hard as he did, if they were still ok I think he'd still be banging people out.
 
A lot of people seem to forget that Joe wasn't a draw in the US, until he beat Lacy, so from the financial side of things, he was far better off staying over here and earning big bucks.

As for him being a legend, I'm not convinced and for quite a while now, he does do an awful lot of slapping, something I've stated on here a few times before, but he's always got around that with sheer effort and workrate, wearing opponents down and taking the points decision.

I do think he'd have had a great chance against RJJ, Hopkins etc in their prime, but we'll never know now.

As for his upcoming fight, he's got a chance, because RJJ isn't in his prime and could be overworked by Joe, it all depends upon if RJJ is really up for it, in shape and ready to battle.

I'm glad he didn't take on Pavlik, because I think he'd be knocked out, as Pavlik is an extremely fit, young, eager fighter, who can bang and who's confidence is sky high, plus he has a huge following, which is always a plus.
 
Big Kev said:
I'm glad he didn't take on Pavlik, because I think he'd be knocked out, as Pavlik is an extremely fit, young, eager fighter, who can bang and who's confidence is sky high, plus he has a huge following, which is always a plus.
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To be fair though, this is exactly the same as was thought about Lacy and Kessler.
 
wordy said:
To be fair though, this is exactly the same as was thought about Lacy and Kessler.
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I'm unsure about Pavlik, i do like what i have seen so far. Pavlik's performances against Miranda and Taylor were awesome, slightly lucky in the first fight but the second he controlled it i thought and i think Taylor is an extremely good boxer. I think the Pavlik vs. Hopkins fight will answer a lot of questions about Pavlik. If he knocks Hopkins out (hopkins has never been knocked out) then he definitely is a very, very good fighter. But if Hopkins controls the fight, which he is so good at and pavliks loses then Joe gets lucky way out of fighting him.
If Pavlik wins and s does Joe, i got a sneaky feeling Joe will fight pavlik, as his last fight and that will improve his legacy if joe wins.
 
azza21 said:
If Pavlik wins and s does Joe, i got a sneaky feeling Joe will fight pavlik, as his last fight and that will improve his legacy if joe wins.
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Agreed, I've said for awhile that I think Joe will have one more fight after RJJ against Pavlik.
 
wordy said:
To be fair though, this is exactly the same as was thought about Lacy and Kessler.
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Pavlik is not protected untested Kessler and not overhyped Lacy.
No Calzaghe is not special, he is a rung below the elites but a great boxer.
In no way shape or form an all time great.
 
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