Soldato
what of speed cameras, road humps and elderly drivers?
JRS's Road Safety Proposals
- Thread starter JRS
- Start date
Associate
Hmmm the Princess calipers are 2 or 4 pot IIRC.
Associate
Mr_Sukebe said:
Forget that - my jobsworth Toyota driver-aids would have me blackened to a crisp every time I went out for a pint of milk
Soldato
Princess calipers are useless anyway as they just wee fluid everywhere and last about 20 minutes before needing a rebuild.
The Hispec equivelants, although costing ~150 quid each, are much much more superior in every single way.
Sorry, what were we talking about?
The Hispec equivelants, although costing ~150 quid each, are much much more superior in every single way.
Sorry, what were we talking about?
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Associate
Because when cars didn't have ABS etc everyone used to drive more carefully. Oh wait no they didn't.
Soldato
ABS can cycle the brakes far faster than I can if I'm trying to stop quickly, well certainly if I'm caught unawares... It's great! Just heave on the brakes and wait to stop!
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[TW]Fox said:
So is the whole 'Modern cars do everything so much better than older ones, anyone who buys an old car is just throwing money away', but you don't hear me complaining
And besides which - my point was that driving seems to be seen as something very routine now, and one reason for that is the amount of equipment on a car that makes it easier to operate. My point was not meant to say 'real men don't use driver aids'....
The fact is in this country there are a lot of vehicles on the road, so at times things get congested. People get wound up. Drive like idiots. Take excessive risks to gain some advantage. Block roadspace with their que mentality. Block access to side roads or access on roundabouts.
Attitude is the biggest problem. If people chilled out a bit, and used their head the roads would be a bit better.
Personally I think any technology that can help the driver is good. Most people couldn't develop the skill to cadence brake, and if they did it would go out the window in a real situation.
Attitude is the biggest problem. If people chilled out a bit, and used their head the roads would be a bit better.
Personally I think any technology that can help the driver is good. Most people couldn't develop the skill to cadence brake, and if they did it would go out the window in a real situation.
Caporegime
JRS said:So is the whole 'Modern cars do everything so much better than older ones, anyone who buys an old car is just throwing money away', but you don't hear me complaining
Apart from starting this very thread
Im 24, have been driving 3 1/2 years
and on occasions... i have... driven like a complete tit! i do however drive a new shape celica with PAS, assisted braking etc etc
id probably drive like a fool if i didnt have this car, but then id have probably been in an accident by now, to drive without all the things you suggest removing from modern cars you need experience and new drivers wont have it and wont be able to get it safely, so what your suggesting is a bit of a paradox
i personally wouldnt live without it at least for the time being, very reassuring to know that if i need to make an sharp turn to avoid something unexpected the car wont reward me with a high speed tree hugging
and on occasions... i have... driven like a complete tit! i do however drive a new shape celica with PAS, assisted braking etc etc
id probably drive like a fool if i didnt have this car, but then id have probably been in an accident by now, to drive without all the things you suggest removing from modern cars you need experience and new drivers wont have it and wont be able to get it safely, so what your suggesting is a bit of a paradox
i personally wouldnt live without it at least for the time being, very reassuring to know that if i need to make an sharp turn to avoid something unexpected the car wont reward me with a high speed tree hugging
MrMoon said:
Why thank you.
Soldato
In an ideal world, removing ABS, PAS, DSC, AYC etc would mean is that people would regard driving as something which requires more skill and would act accordingly, driving more cautiously and getting driver training.
In the real world though, there'd be more crashes left right and centre - nowadays driving is seen as a normal, everyday thing, not anything in which a great deal of interest is taken for most people, as such I expect a large proportion of the population driving cars with DSC and the like probably don't even know their cars have it and what it does, thus would have no idea at all how to do without it! You'd get people deciding to practise their skills 'on the road' with predictably bad consequences.
The test should be changed to teach people a better understanding of driving physics and car control, and what things like ABS do, so they can drive more competently without relying bliindly on electronic gadgetry, and actually know how to control a skid properly. But the problem is an issue of education and banning ABS etc overnight would do nothing to improve matters, in fact it'd make things far more dangerous in the short term IMHO!
Driving aids are useful, whilst I agree that if you're a really talented driver pushing hard they may rob you of some of the involvement you crave, but the bottom line is that for most of the driving people do, they improve safety. Just often do you folks test out your DSC, ABS and the like on your normal commute (as opposed to going out and having a drive for fun) anyway?!
In the real world though, there'd be more crashes left right and centre - nowadays driving is seen as a normal, everyday thing, not anything in which a great deal of interest is taken for most people, as such I expect a large proportion of the population driving cars with DSC and the like probably don't even know their cars have it and what it does, thus would have no idea at all how to do without it! You'd get people deciding to practise their skills 'on the road' with predictably bad consequences.
The test should be changed to teach people a better understanding of driving physics and car control, and what things like ABS do, so they can drive more competently without relying bliindly on electronic gadgetry, and actually know how to control a skid properly. But the problem is an issue of education and banning ABS etc overnight would do nothing to improve matters, in fact it'd make things far more dangerous in the short term IMHO!
Driving aids are useful, whilst I agree that if you're a really talented driver pushing hard they may rob you of some of the involvement you crave, but the bottom line is that for most of the driving people do, they improve safety. Just often do you folks test out your DSC, ABS and the like on your normal commute (as opposed to going out and having a drive for fun) anyway?!
Will said:
Quite correct Will. The driving test needs to be beefed up considerably from the current format, as it's quite obviously letting complete morons out onto the road (I'm looking at you, mazza
). Motorway driving should certainly be added, and I think the argument could be made for doing the test in a car without ABS to give the emergency stop some relevence. Skid pan training would help, but would raise the cost of the driving test somewhat - and it's already pretty expensive to get on the roads.One of the other little issues I see with the current system is the fact that you can do all your learning and pass your test during a dry, warm spell in summer - and have absolutely no clue what you're doing as soon as winter comes around and the roads become slightly more slippery.
Will said:
What "DSC, ABS and the like"? Both the cars sat on the driveway outside right now have PAS and servo'd brakes. That's it. Actually, not strictly true - the PAS on the Olds is broken