Just been blown away by ..........a CRT?!

Jez you have a strong opnion, i just dont fully agree with it.
Its like its CRT in every way with you, im open to the fact different technologies have different advantages.

You dont see what 1080p has to do with anything?
Your the one that mentioned amazing quality etc. Im saying i think your not giving the new and upcoming technology a chance.

Show me a CRT projector, get me a model, price, and what can i connect thanks. ALso as this is really meant to be a TV Debate not a technology overview recommed the best 2 CRT tvs and why. Lets make it a game shall we?

btw its my belief HD disc formats will require HDMI with HDCP to enable the Hidef output, component output will be downscaled to DVD quality.

EDIT. My display isnt projected as for the room im talking about my HDTV in the livingroom not the loft. 1080p displays are available as LCDs Plasmas RPTVs and even digital Projectors. 5K will get you a good Sony 1080p projector today, bit out of my price range though however its not the size of an ice-cream van. ;)
 
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I honestly cannot see every manufacturer going for HDMI/HDCP only, there will be standalone players without these rather silly restrictions. There is of course what we both (as far as i know?) use to play DVD media too, and thats a PC :) No-one will ever put restrictions in playback when it comes to them as there are too many people writing workarounds, i mean look at the encryption they use to stop ripping :p

All CRT projectors will have S-video and composite and that gunk, what you would use are the BNC connections which you would feed from a PC which you would optimally set at the native resolution of whatever you were playing, whatever that may be in your case.

As far as prices you would be pleasantly suprised, something like my barco data 808s would sell for around £1000 with worn but passable tubes, or getting onwards for £2000 in top quality condition. There is actually one on ebay at the moment with a buy it now of £900, i am guessing for that though that its a touch worn.

As for not liking other technologies, honestly thats not true, i use TFT monitors on my PC's as for close up viewing and general use they are stylish and look superb at their native resolution, i also am seriously considering a plasma/lcd screen to replace my ageing 56" RPTV which i use in my lounge for daytime general tv watching. I think they look superb and offer great space saving advantaged over what a CRT display would. There is also the minor problem with HD capable direct view CRT's being non existant in this country! I wont however for one moment accept that for an all out quality display for a fixed home cinema that there is a better option than a proper CRT, i just fail to see the point completely in the current digital displays for this purpose :) Where ive used digital displays are where there are no scaling issues, and where all out contrast and quality do not matter, and where i just want something that will work and look stylish - this is where digital displays shine.
 
For your lounge then i wouldnt argue CRT's case, unless some direct view HD sets became both available and competive, or you were only planning on watching SD material on it.

Interesting website btw :)
 
Jez i dont think your up on the whole HDCP and HD-DVD Blu-Ray game.

Im not saying workarounds hacks wont ever be possible.
Regarding PCs the requirements if ive read into things properly may be.

1. HD Drive (one format or other)
2. Vista
3. HDMI GFX ouput with HDCP
4. HDMI HDCP compatible display.

99% of Monitors including TFTs dont have HDCP so that means no digital handshake. This means either downsampled or no picture at all. The newest HDMI HDTVs are HDCP compatible though.

Welcome to the world of digital and DRM.
 
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I fail to see how the output is relevent. HD DVD's contain a media file, the same as an SD DVD, its just at a higher resolution, it will be able to be played back via multiple different software players, the same as a normal DVD will be played. All you will need is a drive capable of reading the discs.

From some standalone players yes the output may be forced down, but i couldnt care less about standalone players. You are worrying too much about it dude, there will be software players all over the place which will just use windows video overlay as normal.
 
Ah right you think then with these new formats youll get 720p 1080i and 1080p from component outputs or it work a treat with VGA and non HDCP DVI displays/hardware, thats fine, yeah youve got nothing to worry about, honest. :confused:
 
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I'd put money on that all turning out to be nothing but nonesense. I mean look at other things like macrovision protection which was hyped for years, and other software protection methods such as activation etc.

Not worried at all, it'll be as foolproof as the current copy protection on DVD's.
 
Jez said:
I'd put money on that all turning out to be nothing but nonesense. I mean look at other things like macrovision protection which was hyped for years, and other software protection methods such as activation etc.

Not worried at all, it'll be as foolproof as the current copy protection on DVD's.
Click to expand...

Hardly macrovision, you asked why thats the reasons why.
Dont shoot the messenger, remember all this has been worked on for the past 5 years or more.

Yeah it all could happen but youd think by now M$ would know what hackers are able to do. The whole entertainment industry as a whole though is looking for a secure transport.

One thing you have to look at is beyond what we have now and the broader scope of were Vista will take us. Within 2 years the internet could be a vast media source for HDTV movie streaming / Tv Services / More Music Services / Offical game downloads/ Xbox live etc
Call it entertainment on demand if youd like but all this media has to be protected in some way or form for DRM.

Even if a loop hole is found, it could constantly be a game of cat/mouse with regards security. I dont honestly think it will be a case of a quick .exe or shoddy OS install will have it beaten.

How much money you want to put on it?
 
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This thread has been a good read.

Many different opinions but the majority of them say LCD is a very good technology WHEN fed with a HD signal.

Well guess what, if you went and bought an LCD today there are not very many ways to feed it with true HD content (I don't mean 1080p either).

I can think of two, a PC or Satellite Channel 1080i.

Since as most people don't realise there are satellite services other than those offered by Sky and also most people dont even realise you can hook your PC into your TV (I'm sure the latter isn't the case on this forum).

I personally think that CRT gives a better image than LCD/Plasma. Definately with SD content, I have set up many many different LCD and none of them have an integrated scaler which is any good.

So if you want to buy a TV which looks great today, CRT.

If you want to buy a TV which may look better in a few years time and base your buy on speculation then get LCD.

I think LCD technologies will surpass CRT within the next 5 years. Until then I am sticking with CRT. £1000-£2000 on a product which is not perfect, no thanks.

(Also, almost every install I do involves putting the LCD on a large glass AV stand, this saves no room over a CRT as the stand usually uses MORE floor space! To add to this I think the weight argument is stupid as how often do you move your TV? - LCD/Plamsa are fantastic for wall mounting though, cannot deny this!)
 
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Tesla said:
Many different opinions but the majority of them say LCD is a very good technology WHEN fed with a HD signal.
Click to expand...

Or when you scale up the image from DVDs. Actually without DVD player scaling it looks better than my old Sony and philips tvs.

Tesla said:
I can think of two, a PC or Satellite Channel 1080i.
Click to expand...

Or xbox 360 etc...

Actually MCE looks a lot better on LCD. With MCE comes your vids, music, stored movies, weather, TV etc etc etc... also can use windows etc all of which are not as good on a CRT.


Tesla said:
(Also, almost every install I do involves putting the LCD on a large glass AV stand, this saves no room over a CRT as the stand usually uses MORE floor space! To add to this I think the weight argument is stupid as how often do you move your TV? - LCD/Plamsa are fantastic for wall mounting though, cannot deny this!)
Click to expand...


Agree good tech if you want >36" too. Walll mounted 36" CRTs look a bit pants. Wall mounted 40" LCD looks great on or off.
Big CRTS are often placed in corners and does not suit good seating / layout. Hampering viewing.

Watching SD on a 40" LCD looks crap compared to CRT from 1 metre but from my viewing distance of 3 metres actually looks better.



LCD are better IMO ...it all depends on source (Sky,DVD etc) how far you are viewing it from and what your wife would prefer in the living space.
 
Fully agree with everything you said MrM3

Also having a CRT in a corner isnt great for a 5.1 setup.
My rooms a typical example i had my CRT in the corner but the LCD looks great on a straight wall were the CRT would have looked daft at.

Check AV Forums youll find the majority that have moved away from CRT to Plasma/LCD have been happy.
 
Mr Latte,

With HDCP it has been comprehensivly broken. Keys can be generated already, if a key is blocked another key can be made. Now there are flaws in this method and it will be a cat and mouse battle.

However the best way of getting around HDCP is a naughty box, basically it has a genuine HDCP chip in it with a Genuine key - the outputs are either VGA or DVI with the hdcp stripped. Now you could say they will block the keys on these but here is the best bit. The chips are from cheap DVD players etc - if they ban the key none of these cheap dvd players will work. Its expected the same will happen with cheap HDCP video cards, people will buy them and use the HDCP chips in the HDCP strippers.

You can buy lots of HDCP strippers, obv they are not advertised this way so you just have to know what your looking for.

Another method is with SDI modded hardware. Not sure how much you know about SDI but basically the signal comes straight from the decoder chip and gives the best picture possible (better than HDMI, RGBHV etc) A bonus of this is that the video has not passed thru the HDCP chip so it again becomes irrelevant.

HDCP could have been hacker proof but it has been around far too long and based on very old tech, in actual terms it has been hacked quicker than macrovision was.

Its all part of the digital rush, $$$$ signs came before features, design and implementing a good security system. Its all been rushed. It is also widely expected that lots of HDCP devices will not function with screens that have full HDCP 'compatability' it is already known in the states where various DVD players and screens fail to handshake.

Various big boys in the Amp world are refusing to release HDMI equipped gear as its such a mess at the moment, people like Meridian who own certain techs could even stop HDCP and various movie houses have already stated they do not want to adopt HDCP as its fatally flawed.

Its certinally a minefield and the only certain thing is the uncertainty !!
 
I have to say although not on the same par as your monster i often get good reactions from peeps that see my screen.
Its an old Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 930SB 19"CRT. Most comment on the richness of the colour more than anything else and i have yet to see any screen match the depth of colour. I am not technical so don't know the words but what i can say is the difference for me is like the difference between an Oil painting and a water colour.
Mine being the rich oil painting and others being a water colour.
I got it 2nd hand off a member and recently took advantage of the warranty. It was picked up repaired and brought back all in 4 days totally free of charge. I hope it lasts forever but of course it wont. I am hoping it lasts a couple more years giving time for advances and prices to come down on an equivalent. Heres hoping a. ;)
 
malc30 said:
I have to say although not on the same par as your monster i often get good reactions from peeps that see my screen.
Its an old Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 930SB 19"CRT. Most comment on the richness of the colour more than anything else and i have yet to see any screen match the depth of colour. I am not technical so don't know the words but what i can say is the difference for me is like the difference between an Oil painting and a water colour.
Mine being the rich oil painting and others being a water colour.
I got it 2nd hand off a member and recently took advantage of the warranty. It was picked up repaired and brought back all in 4 days totally free of charge. I hope it lasts forever but of course it wont. I am hoping it lasts a couple more years giving time for advances and prices to come down on an equivalent. Heres hoping a. ;)
Click to expand...

hehe good to hear its still going strong even if it did need a repair
 
Shimmyhill

Its all a grey area and boxes that in theroy should work, well we wont really know untill the HD new machines and Vista are out. Additional security could be involved on a software level too. We dont know what else has been done to prevent illegal keys since was it 2001 when HDCP was reported to of been beaten or what will be done to maintain security. Regards people with products which end up with stolen digital keys. Id presume this scanario has been thought over and a solution planned, i cant speculate as to what.

Really HDCP hasnt been implemented properly yet. HDTV in the USA is going fully HDCP in 2007 as currently its easy to capture in full quality 720p 1080i via D-Theatre - Firewire .TS. Im not going to condemn it either way but if 1:1 digital HD copies start flying around like has happened with DVDs then i dont think thats a good thing for the industry nor for the consumers wanting to support the new formats.

My thoughts are why would Hollywood execs be prepared to go with these new formats knowing 100% copies will be possible with a $50 box fully understanding how it will loose them absolute millions. Its not just Hollywood studios that will loose out. Why would Digital Satellite Companies risk PPV monthly subscription programmes/packages knowing 100% copies could be made and distrbuted over highspeed internet in very little time. Personally i feel it may be harder, something just doesnt make it right that it would be so easily beaten. Its a multibillion industry on a worldwide platform that will rely on such security, having it easy as pie for pirates and knowing already before its used is business sucide.

Its a very interesting and confusing debate, maybe more will come to light in the comming months.
 
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I agree not the time to be buying a £10K CRT projector Mr Latte, but IF I had the moeny that would be my 1st port of call once all the new dfinitions are set in stone ( if they ever are with the blu ray / hd-dvd argement rumbling on still)


Surely its exactly like the music business and look at the mess Sony BMG recently made. The other thing that the movie studios have to realise sooner or later is that it SHOULD be legal for owners of legal discs to make LEGITIMATE copies of each disc they own - ie so you can have a media server storing all your HD-dvd's or whatever.

The music industry would never prosecute a single person for having exact digital copies of original CD's they have bought legitimately as long as they dont share it with others or somehow make profit from it.

Why should the movie industry be any different?

I can see your point COMPLETELY about Sky and other boradcasters, amybe with hdd tech being so widely used the broadcasters will bock use of removable storage recording for certain programs? But this would only limit rather than remove the possibilities i dunno
 
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FrankJH said:
Surely its exactly like the music business and look at the mess Sony BMG recently made. The other thing that the movie studios have to realise sooner or later is that it SHOULD be legal for owners of legal discs to make LEGITIMATE copies of each disc they own - ie so you can have a media server storing all your HD-dvd's or whatever.
Click to expand...

HD-DVD will allow this.
You can rip your HD-DVDs to your Vista MCE and add them to your database/server and extenders. Look it up for the full ins outs of it.
Blu Ray doesnt support this function at all
 
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