Just completely lost control of my car

[Lopéz]

try a 309.
much better than a 205.

Agreed. After switching back to a 205 I'd forgotten how unpredictable they feel compared to the 309. I'm told Group A rear beam mounts stop most of the passive rear steering that gives 205's so much of that skippy feel....but I'll reserve judgement until I've fitted them.

 

[Malachy]

I've had the back end of my 306 out at 40! It understeered so I had to come off the throttle and the backend just popped out. This was the first time it had happened to me, I did however manage to catch it by jumping on the throttle (maybe too much lol) because it snaked down the road.

I've had the backend out going around a roundabout flat out in the dry (only a little bit).

Had the back end out under breaking into a corner at low speeds.

Had the back step out after coming out of a corner and applying the brakes gently, but it just completely lost it. I blame this on have 3 different types of tyres each with different levels of tread and a rear offside wheel that looked like this " \ " no joke.

Never will I get a 306 again.

205 4 eva

i love how you diss 306's handling then admit it had carp tyres and a trashed rear beam............ yes 306s do have lift off overstear, about the same amount as every french torsion beam setup car tbh(infact far less than my R19 16v) and i agree with people saying on this forum people seem to think its terrible and happens when you never expect it etc etc, 306's are known for giving huge amounts of feedback, if you cant feel it going tbh you should not be driving like that.
edit: as for removing passive rear steering well since the 306 uses virtually identical torsion bar as the 205 The harder bushes to remove the passive steering are suprisingly available for the 306 too, although unless you really push your car very hard or track it they are kinda pointless
And 309s are the new "IT" peugeot, everyone is selling their 205 mi16s and trying to get 309 mi16s

 

[Lopéz]

edit: as for removing passive rear steering well since the 306 uses virtually identical torsion bar as the 205 The harder bushes to remove the passive steering are suprisingly available for the 306 too, although unless you really push your car very hard or track it they are kinda pointless
And 309s are the new "IT" peugeot, everyone is selling their 205 mi16s and trying to get 309 mi16s

Shame I've always preferred 309's (owned 3 of them) and they are seriously thin on the ground these days.

 

[Malachy]

yeah well on the continent they actually prodiuced a factory 309 mi16, just was never availible here :/ i have alays prefered them too even though never owning one and having owned a miami blue 205 1.9 gti:/

 

[The_Dark_Side]

Agreed. After switching back to a 205 I'd forgotten how unpredictable they feel compared to the 309. I'm told Group A rear beam mounts stop most of the passive rear steering that gives 205's so much of that skippy feel....but I'll reserve judgement until I've fitted them.

same opinion here.
in standard form and on the limit the 205 is about as gradual and progressive as an A-Bomb.
too twitchy due to the wheelbase/track ratio IMHO.
the 309 really deserved more power and i feel they (Pug) made a big mistake not bringing the Mi16 309 to the UK.

EDIT i honestly did type the above before the previous post was posted.

grr

 

[ajgoodfellow]

As said before problem with FWD car is if your pushing it into and corner on the edge of grip with some slight understeer and you decide to let of the accelerator the back end will simply break away.
When you feel the back of the car starting to break away you need to catch it with the accerator to get the front tyres pulling again and then steer in the direction required (depends on how much oversteer has happened which way to turn).

I most likely didn't make much sense but an easy way to test and learn how to tell when its about to happen and control it is to go around a decent size round about at speed and when you feel the front starting to lose grip, let of the accelerator abit you should be able to feel the pitch of the car changing and the backend starting to slide and break away.

Hi

Just read this thread and that's exactly what happened when I wrote off my Astra on New Years Day

I was going around a corner in the wet, lifted off as I didn't want to be going too fast and promptly lost it. I tried to countersteer but ended up going sideways into a lampost - I knew not to brake but I never thought of putting my foot down!!

Wish I'd known that - you live and learn though! I was just about to book some days on the track/skid pan too so that I'd know what to do if it ever happened. I lost the back end around a roundabout on the way there but it was very slow and easy to control - when I wrote the car off it just snapped!

 

[Randell Floyd]

That reminds me when I lost control of the ITR when I was 20y/o, overtaking @ 100mph, brakes faded more than I expected and the right hand corner was fast approaching! Lost control enough to do a 360o.........

Man I miss Ty-Croes ( Anglesey Race Course )

Needless to say the brakes got upgraded, and I always took that corner with a little more respect!

 

[Lopéz]

same opinion here.
in standard form and on the limit the 205 is about as gradual and progressive as an A-Bomb.
too twitchy due to the wheelbase/track ratio IMHO.

Exactly - if you look at the dimensions, the 205 is quite "square" - the wheelbase isn't that long as it is, even in a car of this size. I'm not sure what the ratio between wheelbase and track is as I don't have the figures to hand, but it can't be much off 5:4
Combine that with a rear axle that does have a tendancy to be unpredictable on the limit, and a powerful and edgy engine (particularly for the time) fitted with a very light flywheel and a particularly harsh fuel injection system (the throttle "snaps" closed when released and completely cuts all fueling) and you have a recipe for disaster in all but very committed hands.

 

[Hesky82]

you bring up a very good point,something needs to be done to address this.
if you passed your test 40 years ago,if you were very lucky then maybe your (hypothetically) rich parents could've bought you a Riley Elf.
today,assuming your parents have enough money,in the same scenario they could buy you a Ferrari.
the sooner the Govt address this problem the better IMHO.

My sentiments exactly! To be fair you don’t even need rich parents to afford an insanely fast car these days. Typical modern saloons can sustain such high speeds, and mask the fact you are bombing along at well over 100mph.
My bros friend just picked up a tuned rover gsi turbo, this thing is capable of 160mph and he’s only 18 years old!! Its a recipe for disaster!!
I kept saying to him he should get a little hot hatch to better his driving skills slowly, something that gives him the thrills and fun with out so much speed and power, but he wouldn’t have it!

 

[MagicBoy]

I don't think he said it was - actually I think he was supporting the car by saying he only had one issue and that it was his fault anyway.

Correct

 

[geiger]

yes 306s do have lift off overstear, about the same amount as every french torsion beam setup car tbh

They have switched the rear setup on the latest Civic to this I think

 

[The_Dark_Side]

Exactly - if you look at the dimensions, the 205 is quite "square" - the wheelbase isn't that long as it is, even in a car of this size. I'm not sure what the ratio between wheelbase and track is as I don't have the figures to hand, but it can't be much off 5:4
Combine that with a rear axle that does have a tendancy to be unpredictable on the limit, and a powerful and edgy engine (particularly for the time) fitted with a very light flywheel and a particularly harsh fuel injection system (the throttle "snaps" closed when released and completely cuts all fueling) and you have a recipe for disaster in all but very committed hands.

you and i both know ALL short wheelbase designs are by definition more responsive (read twitchy)....after all that's the point.
but look at the 205 and you notice a few things.
1.they are only slightly over square and
2.it'd be difficult to get the front and rear wheels any further apart and still be covered by any of the bodywork.

the only real shame is there seems to be more decent 205 GTi's left than 309's.

incidentally i almost had you to blame for an extravagance last week.
i passed a 1.9 205 up for sale for £925 and seriously thought about spending a daft grand on it.didn't get time to go over the car though and to my wallets relief when i passed this morning it had a sold sticker on the screen.

 

[Hesky82]

They have switched the rear setup on the latest Civic to this I think

Yup your right, Honda has adopted torsion beam rear suspension on there new new civic. I liked the old EP3 civic and its geometrically optimal independent double wishbone suspension layout, although the rear arb was so tight the rear behaved more like a non-independent suspension, gave it the best of both worlds from a handling point of view imo.
quite ironic VW introduced torsion beam when it debuted the Golf in the 70s, and now they have abandoned the torsion beam in favor of fully independent setup, I think even the new Focus is or will be torsion beam.

 

[Netphreak]

Call me biased, fanboy or whatever but I think the snap oversteer of the 306 gets slightly exagerated on these forums.

Just sounds like a simple case of speed exceeding grip, nothing more.

I done it within 2 months of passing my test, exactly the same kind of incident. Off camber bend taken too fast on slippy roads, back end lost grip and I slid sideways to a halt.

The only time you find the true limits of a car is when you exceed them.

If you want snap oversteer get a 106 or Saxo, they are so light at the back.
And when your diving hard in a 106 GTI it can all go pete tong so easily.

 

[Ultra_Extreme]

Did the same in my escort (thread was on ere) 5 months after test too wrote it off unfortunately. Came too fast to a corner 70 to a 90degree bend broke too hard front discs locked up didnt get my foot back on the throttle and was gone before i knew it. Luckily no one was hurt but what a costly mistake.!

306 defensive mode
The backend on these only goes out if your a crap driver or you mess up big time, brake going in and accelerate through, my gf always moans at me for accelerating round corners, im tempted to show her why but im too scared cos im skint atm

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

My bros friend just picked up a tuned rover gsi turbo, this thing is capable of 160mph and he’s only 18 years old!! Its a recipe for disaster!!
I kept saying to him he should get a little hot hatch to better his driving skills slowly, something that gives him the thrills and fun with out so much speed and power, but he wouldn’t have it!

Unfortunately there's an automatic assumption that cars with more power and faster top speeds are actually fun to drive.
I remember thinking the same when I was a "lad". So the first time I drove a Mitsu GTO I was SOOOO dissapointed. Masses of grip, very fast and a very very competent car, but deathly dull at normal(ish) speeds.
The reality is of course that most genuinely fast cars only feel fun at seriously illegal speeds. Link that with UK levels of road traffic, gatsos, roads where visibility should be the deciding factor and not grip and things don't look quite so rosy for cars like the M5, Skyline etc.