Just listened to a CD for the first time in years....

[9designs2]

My dealer had the £15,000 Naim CDP on demo :-O

555 with 555 PSU, had a demo a year or so ago in a full Naim system, didn't think it was any more musical than mine!!! (not a side by side comparison though.).

Just done a short comparison between my CDP vs Network DAC.... The network DAC is winning !!

 

[badbob]

Cought cough Linn music cough cough it's a squeezebox

http://www.linn.co.uk/digital_stream_players

 

[9designs2]

Cought cough Linn music cough cough it's a squeezebox

http://www.linn.co.uk/digital_stream_players

The reviews are good
http://www.linn.co.uk/product_reviews/action/detail/id/2474

 

[jbloggs]

Using a PC and it's sound card just isn't up to the same level of a CDP. You need to be streaming the data to an external DAC, ala Squeeze box, Transporter or DS !!!

That said I would always suggest listening to the original disc, unless you have invested in a really good external DAC to stream to.

When you talk about a "Squeeze Box" is it This you are referring to?

Would using a "Squeeze Box" to feed a hi fi amp/speaker setup produce better sound quality than a decent soundcard (Terratec DMX 6Fire) feeding the same hi fi amp/speaker setup, given everything else being equal?

 

[james.miller]

Not Oasis albums, that's for sure. Usually jazz/blues/soul as seem to put effort into the quality of the recordings. Haven't tried thrash metal, although it's noise it's quite complex so have to wonder how lossless copes with that. I can tell with cymbals also, seem to lost the detail, and sound quite different. I prefer ogg over mp3 so I use that instead for my iriver h140.

anything in particular? i want to try and some encoding tests

 

[badbob]

Try Norah Jones or Katie Mulea. The Corrs also (older folk albums, not the newer albums) Basically anything with superb sound quality...not EQ'd and processed pop or rock.

Would using a "Squeeze Box" to feed a hi fi amp/speaker setup produce better sound quality than a decent soundcard

Not done PC versus SB comparison, but for ease of use and multi-room capability, the SB wins hands done. SB is indepedant of PC software (apart from Slimserver, which is a background service) someone could be using the server PC in another room for net/office/mail, whilst you're using the SB. Wheras if you have a HTPC for music playback, ie Media Portal/MCE the computer can't be used at the same time. ie I can playback a movie on the HTPC, whilst SB x2 is being played in the other rooms. SS uses about 140MB of memory, and pratically zero CPU% (spikes to 7% on a dual core 4200x2 with CAQ) also VFD, so no need of a monitor to be switched on.

 

[9designs2]

You don't even need a PC !!! Use a NAS drive that runs Slim server.
Soundcard vs SB3 for quality....in principle the SB wins, but i've not tried it.

James, Try any Jack Johnson, the earlier albums are just amazing quality.

 

[badbob]

Use a NAS drive that runs Slim server.

Yeah, couple of things though- rebuilding music database takes ages. Even with a dual core, with music stored locally it takes half an hour. When I stored the music on a NAS it took several hours to re-build. And a NAS CPU is slower than a desktop CPU.

Also either requires you to reflash firmware/build linux (Buffalo) or buy pre-installed. I'm not sure if a Slimserver NAS has CPU power for several SB's. A mate has a Buffalo, got it working but not the startup script..so need to use a PC to manually start it. Took overnight to build the database.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Totally disagree. Using a custom built PC will knock the socks off the highet end CDP..

and the high end CDPs that you've heard are?

 

[9designs2]

Yeah, couple of things though- rebuilding music database takes ages. Even with a dual core, with music stored locally it takes half an hour. When I stored the music on a NAS it took several hours to re-build. And a NAS CPU is slower than a desktop CPU.

Also either requires you to reflash firmware/build linux (Buffalo) or buy pre-installed. I'm not sure if a Slimserver NAS has CPU power for several SB's. A mate has a Buffalo, got it working but not the startup script..so need to use a PC to manually start it. Took overnight to build the database.

That all sounds completely wrong !!! and nothing like my experience, having just got a NAS.

Look up the QNAP 109. Built it in a few mins, uploaded the image to a new drive. Config on web interface.
Then ripped CD with Ripstation Micros DS, which is very quick. Then they are simply copied to the NAS from the PC...
MediaTwonky then runs as server.
I can stream to the player, while coping data onto the NAS.
Media twonky instantly adds new albums to the list. Everything is fairly instant.

 

[jbloggs]

Thanks for the info!

 

[jbloggs]

Can the QNAP 109 (NAS) be used with SqueezeBox Classic to stream music, ie. QNAP 109->SqueezeBox->amp + speakers..?

 

[9designs2]

It can run the Slimserver software, and streams to a SB without a PC being required to play music.
Mine is NAS> Router> DS> Amp> Speakers...... Though I use the twonky Media server to support FLAC files.
It's proving to be such a neat solution, I'm suitable impressed, and I was a sceptic on this side of audio..

I use a Nokia N800 as a remote control ..running media streamer software to create playlists

 

[jbloggs]

It can run the Slimserver software, and streams to a SB without a PC being required to play music.
Mine is NAS> Router> DS> Amp> Speakers...... Though I use the twonky Media server to support FLAC files.
It's proving to be such a neat solution, I'm suitable impressed, and I was a sceptic on this side of audio..

I use a Nokia N800 as a remote control ..running media streamer software to create playlists

Useful info there...thanks.

 

[FrankJH]

With loss less it has the potential to be even better than the CD. Due to better transfer of data, rather than reading a CD in real time.

.

Nothing can be better than the original source - yes it can be equally good but not better

visually you can add more pixels to a picture even thats "best guess" though and not always correct, I guess you could do this for music but potentially more complicated, there is no benefit to transferring the music faster than real time (especially with the few seconds of cache used ready to be played) and transports in most cd players are 100's of times better than those in a pc (and less electronic and actual noise associated with cdp's internals compared to a pc)

 

[-Ad-]

Totally disagree. Using a custom built PC will knock the socks off the highet end CDP..

*Sigh*

Read the first paragraph of the article then gave up with that BS. It started talking about carefully implemented PC components, a soundcard, and foobar + EAC will beat transports over $20,000........... ROFL.

I have carefully selected components, multiple fans, coloured lights, and a dvd-rw drive that is black. But I also have a heavily modified emu-0404 soundcard, and am running winamp with the ASIO pluggin. I also have a custom breakout cable that attaches my soundcard to amp/headphone amp via rcas.

Does it sound as good as my CDP.................... NO. And my CDP is a £12 marantz cd-63 with £250 worth of modifications. Not really high-end in the slightest, but laughs in the face of more expensive CDPs Ive heard.

PC-audio has its place, and a squeeze box might eventually be on my agenda, but it certainly doesn't come close to the quality of a good CDP and the discs that go in it.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

PC-audio has its place, and a squeeze box might eventually be on my agenda, but it certainly doesn't come close to the quality of a good CDP and the discs that go in it.

Interesting comment.
Most comments I've read about normal Squeezeboxes infer that they are roughly on par with a CDP of a similar price. 9 thinks his is around the area of his Unidisk, hardly a rubbish CDP, and my SB+ IMO is a good as any CDP I've heard under £2500.

So I've not yet heard a PC source that can compete with say an Esoteric X01, but they're clearly going in the right direction.

 

[9designs2]

Nothing can be better than the original source - yes it can be equally good but not better

visually you can add more pixels to a picture even thats "best guess" though and not always correct, I guess you could do this for music but potentially more complicated, there is no benefit to transferring the music faster than real time (especially with the few seconds of cache used ready to be played) and transports in most cd players are 100's of times better than those in a pc (and less electronic and actual noise associated with cdp's internals compared to a pc)

I think you missed the point,

For sure nothing improves on the original. But the comment was about comparing the purchased CD in CDP against ripping it and playing back via Network streaming.

If you believe the technical claims, even the best CDP can suffer jitter in the disc reading. The use of a ripped disc, and streamed then can improve on this matter.
In practice the DS does now start to sound better than the 1.1 Universal player I have..... Now it's running in the performance is getting better, and I can agree with the reviews to it's performance.

Now to say this is down to disc reading and data streaming is I thing a wishful thinking, in my view it is a newer product with updated and better implemented DACS and DSP code.
In theory you could put those developments back into the CDP, and have similar performance.

But that is missing the point, what it shows is the development of network streaming, and it's position in Audio, including high end. It is a valid proposition to use a PC/NAS as I high quality Audio system when linked to a suitable DAC.

If you read and believe the reviews on the Klimax DS, it is the finest Digital source heard, and is the new reference point....Out performing a 14K Naim CDP.
Then you can stream it Hi Res audio, 24bit 192, and then set an even high performance level !

As stated, my Unidisk 1.1 (does SACD, DVDA, DVD etc) (best player I've heard, and tweaked) retails at around £6.8K so not cheap !!! is now being out performed by the Akurate DS, 2 channel only, and retails at £3,450....
So would seem to me Streaming Audio has come of age !!!

 

[-Ad-]

Interesting comment.
Most comments I've read about normal Squeezeboxes infer that they are roughly on par with a CDP of a similar price. 9 thinks his is around the area of his Unidisk, hardly a rubbish CDP, and my SB+ IMO is a good as any CDP I've heard under £2500.

So I've not yet heard a PC source that can compete with say an Esoteric X01, but they're clearly going in the right direction.

It's mainly because I know sweet F.A about squeezeboxs, other than they have a display that looks like that on my pioneer car stereo, and they can do something with music. I even listened to one at the head-fi meet briefly, but was more concerned about the Senn 650s

I'm just happy with my £12 marantz, and cannot wait to see if it can handle music as well as I think it can when I get my new amp on Saturday

On another note, anyone off to the heathrow show on sat/sun 28th/29th ?

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

On another note, anyone off to the heathrow show on sat/sun 28th/29th ?

I had originally planned to go, but that's the start of my honeymoon, so will be a little...busy.
If anyone does go, do give us a write up, I'm always curious to hear what's going down.

My previous experiences have generally been fairly underwhelming, with often poor acoustics and a lot of not that great setups. Having said that, there's definitely been a few systems that stood out. At the high end, if you see a Wavac dem, go have a listen. Last year, it was IMO the closest I've heard to live music.