Soldato
It only just occurred to me. Do you think any F1 teams have doubled-up their KERS system to act as a starter motor if they needed to?
KERS cars have built-in starter motor?
- Thread starter NathanE
- Start date
The 2014 regs have stated that all teams need to be able to start the car without external kit so its likely that they will use the kers system to do just that. There is no real benefit to starting the cars like this instead of using a starter though apart from giving the driver a way back into the race if he stalls it out on track.
You can't start the cars from cold like it because the engine tolerances are so tight.
You can't start the cars from cold like it because the engine tolerances are so tight.
So in 2014 does that mean drivers won't use the KERs on the in lap because they will need the charge for the pits? I did read a while ago that the people that make the Mclaren Kers system are struggling increasing the power. I presume they will just be doubling the size of the unit?
Wouldn't it all get a bit close to the line if you have used Kers during the lap but then suddenly have a requirement to pit, say a puncture, broke nose?
Wouldn't it all get a bit close to the line if you have used Kers during the lap but then suddenly have a requirement to pit, say a puncture, broke nose?
Soldato
The only reason the driver must be able to start the engine via the steering wheel in 2014, is because the cars must run on KERS only when in the pits, the driver needed a way to start the engine up again when rejoining the track. There hasn't yet been any clarification if they can use it to start the car after stalling from a spin/accident etc.
It all seems a little ill-thought out ATM.
It all seems a little ill-thought out ATM.
Hmm as I said with what I read I doubt they could get much longer out of what they have anyway. Which makes me wonder how the hell they will get 25 seconds of use pitting. I know it's slower but the car has to be accelerated from 0 as fasts as possible.
Very interesting to see how this works and who gets stuck in the pits
Of course there won't be a button that says "Engine Start" under current regs. But I was thinking that maybe a team has added some software to their anti-stall system so that if all else has failed it detects the stalled engine and dumps a 2 seconds KERS boost into the engine to start it up again?
Or maybe they tell their drivers to press the KERS button if the engine has stalled?
I know engine stalls are bloody rare these days. But still, food for thought!
Or maybe they tell their drivers to press the KERS button if the engine has stalled?
I know engine stalls are bloody rare these days. But still, food for thought!
Soldato
It sounds to me as though they will basically have to set it up that primary ignition cannot occur below pit lane speed, and that they will need to have the engines start automatically when the speed goes above that. As for how long a charge they get, well, I'm sure that they will work something out.
Sam Michael was on R5L over the Germany weekend and confirmed what dannyjo has said. the issue isn't so much cruising down the pitlane at 60mph, as this takes very little power, the issue is accelerating from stationary in the pit box up to 60mph as fast as possible.
I recon they could quite easily maintain a moving car at 60mph for the full length of the pitlane with the current power of KERS (80bhp for 7 seconds, so drop it to 20bhp for 21 seconds or more?). Its the sudden power needed to accelerate thats the problem. The 2014 rules see the power of KERS doubled, but I still think we might see people having to 'save' their stored KERS power on their in-laps to be able to get out of the pit box.
One other thing, how will this work for exiting the pits at the start of a session or to form up on the grid? The cars will come from the garage so wont have charged their KERS, and at present at least, pre-charging of the KERS batteries is now allowed.
I have no issue with the idea at all. I think its a clever way to use the technology, I just think we need far more details around how it is actually going to work.
On a side note, imagin KERS powered electric motors providing instant torque for epic standing start launches in road cars
I recon they could quite easily maintain a moving car at 60mph for the full length of the pitlane with the current power of KERS (80bhp for 7 seconds, so drop it to 20bhp for 21 seconds or more?). Its the sudden power needed to accelerate thats the problem. The 2014 rules see the power of KERS doubled, but I still think we might see people having to 'save' their stored KERS power on their in-laps to be able to get out of the pit box.
One other thing, how will this work for exiting the pits at the start of a session or to form up on the grid? The cars will come from the garage so wont have charged their KERS, and at present at least, pre-charging of the KERS batteries is now allowed.
I have no issue with the idea at all. I think its a clever way to use the technology, I just think we need far more details around how it is actually going to work.
On a side note, imagin KERS powered electric motors providing instant torque for epic standing start launches in road cars
As I have said before this is almost certainly not the case.
The kers is still connected to the crank shaft. Therefore the engine and piston will still be going around in the pitstop.
Where an engine start is from station and will need different info as well as being in neutral.
Also they have anti stall. How often do we see a stall. So I don't see that as a problem or reason.
I imagine the reason for it, is it makes sense. It also like running electric only in the pit stops. Ensures team implement and spend money developing kers. Unlike red bull and the three new teams this year.
I would imagine the rule will only apply after the start of the race. I cant see it being implemented in qualifying for example. As that many pitstops on one flying lap.
The silly thing is both technical and sporting regulations have been released and I can't find details on these questions.
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I love that people seem to think this is an issue.
Firstly, if you have headphones on, you likely don't listen for F1 cars coming down the pitlane, you use your eyes and have a look.
And if you don't have headphones on then you will hear the massive claxon that goes off whenever a car enters the pits.
Its a non issue. If you are stupid enough to get run over by an F1 car in the pits it will be because you are an idiot, and not because the cars are running on electric power. This wont stop people blaming the cars though...
I've spent an awful lot of time in pitlanes over the last 20 years and I've seen several people get run over, and more near misses than I can remember. That's with loud racing cars with engines running!
You often miss the claxon if a group of cars are racing past the pitwall, and most of the mechanics etc are often so focused on their job in hand they don't always give 100% attention to crossing. It's also suprisingly difficult to judge the speed of a car coming at you at 50mph!
Some of the near misses I've witnessed have only been misses because the person heard the car at the last minute.
To be honest though - in comparison to the risk of refueling in the pits this is much less of an issue! But I do feel that the safety of the men in the pitlane is often quite a secondary consideration in F1.
Fingers crossed that it never happens though, but it will surely increase the chances (even if only slightly?), yet I'm not entirely sure what the benefits are?
I'm not actually against them bringing in this rule - the risk to the mechanics was just an observation.
It ensures that kers is implemented and implemented fully. As well as pushing green credentials for the sponsors.
Without such regs, you can do what red bull is doing this year.
Running it for the pit, it means everyone will have to run it, run it at full power and will have to ensure they harvest energy and not just switch it of and regain the car Breaking balance.
Without such regs, you can do what red bull is doing this year.
Running it for the pit, it means everyone will have to run it, run it at full power and will have to ensure they harvest energy and not just switch it of and regain the car Breaking balance.
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Yeah, that makes sense.
I am just really hoping that the engines live up to expectations. I was never a fan of the last turbo era cars at all. Turbo lag and the adaptations the drivers/cars have to make to driving style aren't something I enjoyed in comparison to throttle response of a normally aspirated car.
Fortuantely at the expected power levels, and with modern turbo technology, KERS etc I'm expecting (hoping) they will be very diffferent to the previous generation.
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