Kit Car Discussion

[Skeeter]

Not evicting you, but as the guy is clearly looking for advice from people who have built one and you are just reciting heresay, I felt it worth pointing out. Along with belittling the scaremongering about 15-20 yr old components.

Feel free to lookout for threads I have no place in, you will be very busy, I avoid them myself.

You were merely trying to get on a high horse, and failed.

My point about 15 year old components is that If I was building a shiny new car, the areas I would want to spend money would be those areas that would stop me hitting a tree. Honestly how good are a set of brakes from an old 1.8 Sierra going to be compaired to a decent new setup? Surely its a no brainer? Sure you can do it, but when stamping on the pedal Id want something new under my foot over something old.

 

[Dr Who]

You were merely trying to get on a high horse, and failed.

My point about 15 year old components is that If I was building a shiny new car, the areas I would want to spend money would be those areas that would stop me hitting a tree. Honestly how good are a set of brakes from an old 1.8 Sierra going to be compaired to a decent new setup? Surely its a no brainer? Sure you can do it, but when stamping on the pedal Id want something new under my foot over something old.

So now you demonstrate you really have no understanding...

Let us see, how are brakes, 20 years old from a big old bus like a sierra gonna stop a car weighing around 600-750kgs?

Heck, lets throw away the servo, lets make it a real challenge...

Maybe, we can make it more of a challenge by using 30 year old AP calipers?

Lets not limit ourselves to 20 year old brakes, we have a whole range of 15-20 year old components we can use. Steering column? Might break? Engine? Might leave me stranded by the roadside?

God all those ferari F40 drivers must be terrified now their whole car is 20 years old, trees quaking at the thought of the damage to their trunks

Seriously, stay away from a kit car, you dont have the most basic understanding of brakes, you should stick with some nice modern box with ABS, traction control etc etc.

Now I am getting on my high horse, as you are demonstrating with every post you had nothing of any value to add to the discussion.

 

[Skeeter]

So now you demonstrate you really have no understanding...

Let us see, how are brakes, 20 years old from a big old bus like a sierra gonna stop a car weighing around 600-750kgs?

Heck, lets throw away the servo, lets make it a real challenge...

Maybe, we can make it more of a challenge by using 30 year old AP calipers?

Lets not limit ourselves to 20 year old brakes, we have a whole range of 15-20 year old components we can use. Steering column? Might break? Engine? Might leave me stranded by the roadside?

God all those ferari F40 drivers must be terrified now their whole car is 20 years old, trees quaking at the thought of the damage to their trunks

Seriously, stay away from a kit car, you dont have the most basic understanding of brakes, you should stick with some nice modern box with ABS, traction control etc etc.

Now I am getting on my high horse, as you are demonstrating with every post you had nothing of any value to add to the discussion.

Lol, let me guess, your car has Sierra brakes.

And you can hardly compare an F40 with a Sierra. Lets be honnest, any Sierra you find is going to be one sniff away from being scrapped, and not been serviced in years.

You have confirmed one thing for me though. The kit car community is like the Linux community. Full of people who have the knowledge, but dont want to share the knowledge as it would remove their supremacy over the rest of us.

Anyway, back to the thread "Kit Cars - According to Dr Who"

 

[Dogbreath]

Lol, let me guess, your car has Sierra brakes.

And you can hardly compare an F40 with a Sierra. Lets be honnest, any Sierra you find is going to be one sniff away from being scrapped, and not been serviced in years.

You have confirmed one thing for me though. The kit car community is like the Linux community. Full of people who have the knowledge, but dont want to share the knowledge as it would remove their supremacy over the rest of us.

Anyway, back to the thread "Kit Cars - According to Dr Who"

And you really need to brush up on your alleged kit car research. Just how many people do you suppose would dig out some manky old sierra calliper from the depths of a scrap yard and just bolt it onto something they had spent hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds on? It is still easy to get reconditioned and even new Sierra calipers, should your chosen kit use the Sierra uprights.

What has surprised me is the title of this thread is "kit cars" and yet the only kind of car that has been mentioned are 7 type cars. There are many alternative kit cars, many of which are far more desirable than a 7.

 

[Skeeter]

But surely buying reconditioned or new Sierra calipers would fall into my catagory of not using the original 15 year old parts 'from the depth of a scrap yard'. I wasnt suggesting you spend thousands on new braking systems, just that getting hold of an old Sierra destined for the heap, and then a shiny kit car chassis may not be all that you would need. A point that seems to have been missed.

 

[Flibster]

Thanks, that looks like a good place to start.

Just to warn you - they're not entirely serious all the time...

Mark normally ends up sticking parts of whatever he's building on his head like a helmet, but they are a good watch - it condenses it down dramatically, but does give you an indication of what you are letting yourself in for.

 

[Skeeter]

Looking though this again, it appears Dr Who has missinterpreted my post, and naturally, as is always the way, ive dived straight into an argument before realising that ive been missunderstood.

At no point did I say dont use 20 year old TECHNOLOGY. I merely stated to be cautious about using 20 year old physical parts. Of course Sierra brakes are ideal for kit cars, but grabbing an old car and thinking it will give you all the bits you need to make a kit can have its dangers. You wont/might not know how well its been looked after. So while the system it provides is great, there will obviously, as dogbreath said, be parts that you will want refurbed, or to replace with new.

At no point was I suggesting you should stick a 2009 ABS traction control setup in a kit car. Just that you may not be so keen on sticking the 20 year old rusty callipers on, for example.

 

[Wicksta]

Damn, I've just gone outside and thrown my kitcar away as it has Sierra brakes.

Seriously Skeeter, do you really expect most kitcar builders just sling on 'old' brakes without a care in the world?

 

[Dr Who]

I guess he has never heard of IVA testing either, or reconditioning?

 

[ironman]

Have a look at Great British Sports Cars, their Zero kit is extremely attractive if you want a 7 style car. A Zero is one of the things on my list of 'must dos', perhaps in 2010

 

[Dr Who]

MNR are now doing an MX5 based kit, full kit all the donor parts etc £7500 inc vat.

GBS kits arent bad, but the geometry is a bit sucky on the suspension, Personally I would choose an MK or an MNR over the GBS cars, but you cannot fault the price of them.

 

[john_s]

Anybody built one? I know it's a bit early for me to be thinking about getting a motor but it's still a project that interests me. What are the basics that you should look into before doing some serious research?

I started building a 7 look-a-like a few years ago from plans on the net, having seen the Build a Car for £250 book, because I fancied a toy car and like tinkering with things. As has been mentioned above, locostbuilders is a great resource.

In the end, I shelved the build having pretty much completed the chassis because I'd bought a toy car instead. I'll get started on it again one day though.

If I had the chance (and the Pound notes ) I'd really like to build a Cobra kit and put a beasty V8 in it.

 

[Zuma]

Have a look at Great British Sports Cars, their Zero kit is extremely attractive if you want a 7 style car. A Zero is one of the things on my list of 'must dos', perhaps in 2010

I have first hand experience with Great British Sports Cars (Formally Robin Hood) and they are terrible. I used to build their 2B kit cars for a while, but in the end i stopped because they were so shoddily put together. once i got some suspension parts that were only tack welded together. and when i pointed out that their chassis were 20mm longer on one side than the other they said they knew.
they use a low grade stainless steel for the chassis which cracks after a few years. they're cheap but you'll save money in the long run by spending a bit more to begin with.

 

[Dr Who]

The lightweight bankrupted them I believe.

 

[Hodders]

I have built two caterham 7s. The first a 1700 xflow and the second a K-series.

Building a modern caterham is a great experience, everything is brand new, I came in after working on the build with clean hands and no rapped knuckles - lovely.

I did a build diary in about 1993 which you will find if you google for Ben Hodson Caterham.

The only reason I built the 2nd one was cos I wanted to do it again.

Biggest mistake I ever made was selling the 2nd one (my commute went up and I should have just bought a banger and kept the 7).

There is a certain snobbery in Caterham circles (which is just silly), but if you want an aluminium clad car with top notch engineering then the Caterham is a great option.

 

[Dr Who]

I love the Caterham and Westfield packages, there is a lot to be said for what is basically one big mecanno set. A kit should be like this IMHO, even if you buy it in stages.

Mine took way too much fettling, I don'tmind all the drilling and rivetting, fitting rivnuts etc, but have to file parts down to make them fit wears thin after a while. If you know that the powder coating needs grinding out of the holes, blank them before powder coating please mr kit car manufacturer, not everyone has a full set of air tools in their workshop! And dont get me started on getting it out of threads

 

[ironman]

I have first hand experience with Great British Sports Cars (Formally Robin Hood) and they are terrible. I used to build their 2B kit cars for a while, but in the end i stopped because they were so shoddily put together. once i got some suspension parts that were only tack welded together. and when i pointed out that their chassis were 20mm longer on one side than the other they said they knew.
they use a low grade stainless steel for the chassis which cracks after a few years. they're cheap but you'll save money in the long run by spending a bit more to begin with.

Their new Zero model is completely different to their RH's and has received great reviews.

 

[Skeeter]

Seriously Skeeter, do you really expect most kitcar builders just sling on 'old' brakes without a care in the world?

Clearly not, seen as my statement was exactly that, not wanting to just stick 20 year old components on a new kit. Seen as the OP has asked for information about kit cars, I thought he might like that piece of advice. To you 'experts' it may seem like stating the obvious, but the obvious is only obvious once you know it, and the OP might not have.

Its not my fault someone missunderstood what I said.

 

[PermaBanned]

Thanks for all the posts guys... purely speculative at this point but what would you say is the best 'beginner' kit, budget allowing?

 

[Dr Who]

IMHO go for the MNR Vortx Mazda full kit. £7500 inclusive of all recon mazda parts from a broken MX5

And why use 20 yr old sierra bits when you can use those from a more recent Mazda?