La lune de miel est terminée!

stockhausen

stockhausen

stockhausen

Capodecina
Soldato
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The Guardian said:
Anti-government protesters who barricaded roads and fuel depots across France this week are to stage fresh demonstrations in Paris on Saturday, as Emmanuel Macron struggles to quell a national mood of defiance.

The “gilets jaunes” (yellow vests) citizens’ movement – named after the protesters’ fluorescent, high-visibility vests – has caught the French president off-guard. The movement has no leader and its ad-hoc barricades at tollbooths, roundabouts and fuel depots have been organised on social media.

The movement, which began as a protest against rising fuel taxes, has grown into a wider outpouring over inequality, a political class seen as cut off from reality and the pro-business Macron’s persistently negative image as a “president of the rich”.

A poll for Le Figaro on Friday showed 77% of French people felt the planned protests across Paris were legitimate, suggesting even those who were not guarding roadblocks day and night in provincial towns, villages and suburban areas identified with the feeling of disconnect from the governing class.
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Reassuring to see that the French have had enough of austerity.
If it wasn't for Marine Le Pen, Macron would probably never have been elected.
 
Werewolf said:
. . .
But protests that blockade vital infrastructure, or even just roads will tend to get short shift in any democracy if it starts to adversely affect the country.
. . .
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Forgive my cynicism but what you are saying is that protest should always be ineffective and should never disturb the status quo - perhaps it might lead to a conference in a comfortable resort somewhere - Nice is nice - and/or a two year inquiry by a retired judge and his chums?

No pain, no gain ;)
 
dowie said:
. . . Point is the OP portrayed this as people having enough of austerity when it is actually people wanting to the govt to cut tax on fuel which would just add to the austerity issue.
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The tax on diesel, in order to combat pollution, mostly in Paris is/was the trigger.

However I think that you may find that there is a bit more to the protests - to do with austerity and inequality perhaps?

Whatever, bonne chance!
 
France is a republic that was founded in popular violence. Politics runs to the street there more rapidly than in any other western democracy.
. . .
The centre of Paris has not seen violence on this scale since the student and worker rebellion of May 1968. Much of the worst violence in 1968 came from the police.
. . .
And France has not seen widespread destruction of this kind since the riots that burned like a forest fire through almost all the multiracial inner suburbs of French towns and cities in 2005. Then, the violence stopped at the invisible moat that divides the centre of prosperous French cities from their troubled banlieues, or suburban ghettos. (LINK)
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However, let's carry on pretending that this is just about the price of diesel and has absolutely nothing to do with austerity, inequality or the elitist perfidy of Macron shall we?
 
Sasahara said:
I'm pretty sure the UK has plenty of protesters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_protests_in_the_United_Kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_riots
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Yes, the protests in advance of the illegal invasion of Iraq is an example. The Poll Tax riots were notable in that they got rid of the hated Grantham Gorgon,

The French protests were initially triggered by Macron's fuel tax rise which was intended to combat climate change and pollution in Paris at the expense of the rest of the country. However, the spark took hold as a result of underlying anger over Macron's love affair with the rich elite and austerity.

Macron has now suspended the fuel tax rise, let's see if it all dies down.
 
Alternatively, they could always break the mold and clamp down on Tax Dodging?
However, Macron will not want to upset his sponsors just before the Festive Season ;)
 
dowie said:
. . .
Do you think they're happy with tax dodging at the moment or something? Like until now no one in France has ever thought to crack down on people actively breaking the law?
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You may be unable to grasp the difference between tax Evasion and aggressive tax Avoidance (Dodging) which while perfectly legal is sometimes considered to be unethical and unacceptable to the majority who are unable to set up shell companies in Luxembourg to charge out their highly specialised labour as shelf stackers or road sweepers and to make them low interest "loans".
 
Macron’s arrogance unites us.

On the grass verge of a village roundabout north of Toulouse, Céline stood at a barricade built from pallets of wood and old tyres, a bonfire burning behind her. French flags were flying alongside signs calling for Emmanuel Macron’s resignation.

“I’m prepared to spend Christmas protesting at this roundabout with my children – we won’t back down and we’ve got nothing to lose,” said the 41-year-old Céline, who voted for Macron in last year’s presidential election. “He gave good speeches and I really believed his promises that he would change France. But not any more.”

Céline, a classroom assistant for children with special needs, earns €800 (£710) a month. She cannot afford rent so lives with her four children in a relative’s house in the suburbs of Toulouse, in the south-west of France.

“Macron’s first move in office was to slash the wealth tax for the mega-rich while cutting money from poor people’s housing benefits,” she said. “That is a serious injustice. The country is rising up and he’s staying silent, he’s hiding in an ivory tower, that’s what disturbs me, he’s not taking responsibility.”
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Macron reminds me of Cameron, his pathetic "negotiation" with the EU and his arrogance over the Referendum - unfortunately the British lack the energy and sense of community solidarity of the French.
 
Brexiteers are absolutely convinced that the majority of voterd still want to leave the EU.
Brexiteers are terrified at the prospect of a 2nd referendum.
If Brexiteers are so convinced of victory why are they hiding in the cellar?

There should be a 2nd Referendum with just two questions on the bal;ot paper, as before - Leave or Remain.
 
Minusorange said:
It's funny that Macron thinks it's only about money

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46513189
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France's President Emmanuel Macron has promised a minimum wage rise and tax concessions in response to weeks of violent protests.
. . .
Macron condemned the violence but said the protesters' anger was "deep, and in many ways legitimate".
. . .
Macron, who has until now kept a low profile during the protests, acknowledged that many people were unhappy with living conditions and felt they "had not been listened to"
. . .
Macron, a former banker, has previously been criticised for being out of touch and not listening to the struggles of ordinary people.
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Yeah, the peasantry seems to think that they have been taken for suckers as he has schmoozed his wealthy banker friends.
 
Rroff said:
Problem is peaceful protest doesn't achieve much unless you can put the pressure on - most people have jobs, lives, etc. they can't spend days on end piling the pressure on and the ruling classes rarely respond to anything other than being under sustained pressure.

Violence unfortunately can achieve the same result in much less time.
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In practice, for the reasons you mention, the "ruling class" rarely need to resort to violence; they can rely on apathy and selective use of the law and judiciary whilst the majority simply have to "adopt the position and take it".

Democracy is only the tyranny of the majority over the minority in fiction, in reality the rich minority have all the power.
Would peaceful protests have ended the Poll Tax?
Would peaceful protests have ended the Vietnam War?
Did peaceful protests by millions of people prevent the illegal invasion of Iraq and the inevitable, predictable chaos in the Middle East?
 
Jérôme Rodrigues, a high-profile member of the gilets jaunes protest movement, claims he was struck by round from a weapons launcher firing large rubber pellets used by French riot police, permanently blinding him in one eye

There have been calls for French police to be banned from using the launchers, and last week the interior minister, Christophe Castaner, ordered officers carrying them to wear body cameras to establish whether they were used legally. More than 80 inquiries have been launched following serious injuries or legal complaints during gilets jaunes protests.

Despite the complete silence in the British Meeja and the crack-down by the French Police, this anti-austerity protest in France shows no signs of dying down.

Didn't someone release a popular song about rubber bullets some time ago?


Meanwhile, in the last few days there have been suggestions that Theresa May's inept Government may declare Martial Law and a curfew if (as seems likely) they can't find a solution to their self-inflicted Brexit omnishambles and there is civil unrest.
 
h4rm0ny said:
. . .
If they try to back out of Brexit, there will be riots because belief in democracy is the main limiter against civil unrest starting up. And reneging on Brexit will kill that faith dead for many.​
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I think that the real issue here is what exactly would be seen to constitute "reneging on Brexit".

I suspect that many people, even rabid Brexiteers would now acknowledge that the public was sold a series of lies about leaving the EU. Even Farage and Bonker Boris seem to be embarrassed.

I really can't see how any rational person could object to a second Referendum, certainly not on the basis that it is "undemocratic".
 
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