Labour party problems.

[ReltonBFD]

Labour want the muslim vote simple as , if it means hating a few Jews they will .

That party would literally do a deal with the devil (which i think it is doing, see London Mayor) to get in power , despise what the party as become , My family was always Labour not any more.

 

[andicole0]

@satchef1 Why does Ken need a slap? That is what I don't understand. I know he can be a bit of a loony at times.
Andi.

 

[Danthus]

Labour want the muslim vote simple as , if it means hating a few Jews they will .

That party would literally do a deal with the devil (which i think it is doing, see London Mayor) to get in power , despise what the party as become , My family was always Labour not any more.

Absolute rubbish.

 

[Dolph]

Fundamentally, the problems in the Labour Party represent a split between those who strive for ideological purity (Corbyn, livingstone, momentum et al) and those who want to actually get elected and make some changes.

The hard left authoritarianism that corbyn represents has never been popular in the UK, every time labour have headed down that path it ends in disaster. The problem is corbyn and his supporters don't care about that.

The question is whether the parliamentary labour party can pull off a coup before the corbyn gets the rules changed to lock labour into this position or not.

 

[Orionaut]

Labour want the muslim vote simple as , if it means hating a few Jews they will .

That party would literally do a deal with the devil (which i think it is doing, see London Mayor) to get in power , despise what the party as become , My family was always Labour not any more.

There are nearly 3 Million Muslims in the UK, they tend to have large families so this number is set to grow.

There are around 250,000 Jews in the UK, they tend not to have large families so the population is likely to be static.


Yes, It is about numbers and votes!

 

[Danthus]

Fundamentally, the problems in the Labour Party represent a split between those who strive for ideological purity (Corbyn, livingstone, momentum et al) and those who want to actually get elected and make some changes.

The hard left authoritarianism that corbyn represents has never been popular in the UK, every time labour have headed down that path it ends in disaster. The problem is corbyn and his supporters don't care about that.

The question is whether the parliamentary labour party can pull off a coup before the corbyn gets the rules changed to lock labour into this position or not.

Brace yourself, I broadly agree with you.

Lets put aside policy for the moment, the issue with the current leadership is the fact that not a day goes by whereby there isn't some sort of distraction.

Now lots of pro Corbyn people argue that it is the right of the party slinging mud but the problem is, as I predicted, the media, the opposition and some within the party use Corbyn's own words against him.

This situation was entirely predictable.

 

[Dolph]

Brace yourself, I broadly agree with you.

Lets put aside policy for the moment, the issue with the current leadership is the fact that not a day goes by whereby there isn't some sort of distraction.

Now lots of pro Corbyn people argue that it is the right of the party slinging mud but the problem is, as I predicted, the media, the opposition and some within the party use Corbyn's own words against him.

This situation was entirely predictable.

Indeed, but some of what is going on beggars belief. Look at this last week, Tories in power, divided over Europe, first all out doctors strike in nhs history and labour managed to dominate the headlines through poor decisions and Ken Livingstone. The press highlight any issue where party leaders are concerned (see the handling of Cameron paying all due tax as another example), the media doesn't treat corbyn differently, he just seems to give them way more ammunition.

The real problem is that labour are not an effective opposition at the moment. Cameron's own backbenchers have forced more u turns than the opposition... that leads to bad lawmaking.

 

[Metallifux]

Corbyn is a moron.

I thought it was Gordon who was a moron.........

 

[McPhee]

@satchef1 Why does Ken need a slap? That is what I don't understand. I know he can be a bit of a loony at times.
Andi.

Judgement. He's a front line politician with decades of experience. He should have an idea as to what reaction he's going to get.

 

[Danthus]

Indeed, but some of what is going on beggars belief. Look at this last week, Tories in power, divided over Europe, first all out doctors strike in nhs history and labour managed to dominate the headlines through poor decisions and Ken Livingstone. The press highlight any issue where party leaders are concerned (see the handling of Cameron paying all due tax as another example), the media doesn't treat corbyn differently, he just seems to give them way more ammunition.

The real problem is that labour are not an effective opposition at the moment. Cameron's own backbenchers have forced more u turns than the opposition... that leads to bad lawmaking.

May of us realise this, but there is certainly an environment at the minute where you are not to popular if you voice that opinion.

 

[Dolph]

Judgement. He's a front line politician with decades of experience. He should have an idea as to what reaction he's going to get.

Are you saying ken should have kept his antisemitic views hidden from the public?

I would much rather know the actual views of those who represent us...

 

[h4rm0ny]

I hope this doesn't go badly, but I don't understand the difference between the different anti somethings being bantered around the Labour party. I also don't understand why Ken Livingstone is being castigated for making a statement about Hitler. Are we not supposed to even mention him these days?
I'm looking for enlightenment here not a broadening of the troubles.
Andi.

Explanation is simple. The Labour Left are political opponents of the Labour Right (who ruled the roost under Tony Blair) and of course the Tories. Both of these have been rather unsettled by the wave of popularity that Jeremy Corbyn has been enjoying and the rise in power of his faction in the Labour Party. Finding other tactics not working, they're now manufacturing scandals in an attempt to undermine him and his supporters.

Naz Shar said some vaguely anti-Semitic things, mainly because she didn't sufficiently differentiate between Israel and Jewish. She has apologized. However, it's a good enough starting point for the Labour Left's political enemies to start their witch hunt.

This has been carefully orchestrated:

https://electronicintifada.net/cont...d-uk-labour-partys-anti-semitism-crisis/16481

 

[Danthus]

Judgement. He's a front line politician with decades of experience. He should have an idea as to what reaction he's going to get.

It is far worse than that.

Given that all he wanted to do was spend the weekend in the garden, Ken sure has made an effort to get himself on the TV and radio.

Given the controversy he caused to go out and repeat what he said, not one, but twice is idiotic to say the least.

 

[Danthus]

This has been carefully orchestrated:

So the right has somehow got Ken Livingstone to say what he did.

It is ridiculous to suggest the right of the party orchestrated this.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Corbyn made a career out of rebelling now he wants loyalty, good luck with that!

I think he's quite liberal as a leader, actually. He allowed his party a free vote on the bombing of Syria which he didn't have to do and was personally strongly against. Hardly a tyrant.

 

[Dolph]

Explanation is simple. The Labour Left are political opponents of the Labour Right (who ruled the roost under Tony Blair) and of course the Tories. Both of these have been rather unsettled by the wave of popularity that Jeremy Corbyn has been enjoying and the rise in power of his faction in the Labour Party. Finding other tactics not working, they're now manufacturing scandals in an attempt to undermine him and his supporters.

Naz Shar said some vaguely anti-Semitic things, mainly because she didn't sufficiently differentiate between Israel and Jewish. She has apologized. However, it's a good enough starting point for the Labour Left's political enemies to start their witch hunt.

This has been carefully orchestrated:

https://electronicintifada.net/cont...d-uk-labour-partys-anti-semitism-crisis/16481

What deluded rubbish. Corbyn's popularity is with a small group of people who have joined the Labour Party en masse, the polls are clear that this is not the case with the electorate at large.

The problem with the left and antisemitism is not new and has long been the case. The conspiracy theory is just another way to protect the delusion that there is no problem.

 

[h4rm0ny]

I didn't want to discuss anything about persons in the current argument, more I wanted to understand what is upsetting people. It seems to me stating historical facts should be Ok but I understand you can't even mention the H word in some countries.
I think this is more about personal vendettas rather than historical embarrassments. How can we deter people repeating tragic events if we can't mention those that took place.
Andi.

Ah, I see. Well in that case, I'm afraid it's a "wrong question" in the sense it presupposes there's a 'why'. There isn't anything particularly upsetting about what was said. It really is a manufactured outrage for political purposes.

 

[Dolph]

I think he's quite liberal as a leader, actually. He allowed his party a free vote on the bombing of Syria which he didn't have to do and was personally strongly against. Hardly a tyrant.

He allowed a free vote because it was clear he had not got the clout to have a whipped one and not be embarrassed by the outcome.

You seem to have an amazing capacity for revisionism and self delusion.

 

[John40]

They have just had the odious Diane Abbott trying to defend Corbyn on Andrew Marr, as usual she managed to make things worse.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Fundamentally, the problems in the Labour Party represent a split between those who strive for ideological purity (Corbyn, livingstone, momentum et al) and those who want to actually get elected and make some changes. The hard left authoritarianism that corbyn represents has never been popular in the UK

But that's the thing. Corbyn, despite very aggressive attempts to portray him as otherwise, is pretty popular. He has unseated the Blair-ite right that held a lock on the Labour Party since Blair swept to power. There's a strong chance that Corbyn could be elected which is why we're seeing such aggressive and low tactics to make him look weak.