Labour plans to lower minimum age of voting

[anything I don't mind]

Is this the part where you try to debate semantics because you have no valid arguments to justify your position?.

What is a rate set by a combination of market forces & additional costs by the government called then?, the government does't set the rate for entire good, but it does set part of the cost via wage laws & environmental clean-up costs.

As the government applies tax to nearly everything that adds on to the market rate at a fixed amount. It doesn't mean that it is no longer the market rate if government interference has caused it to increase or decrease. It is only no longer the market rate when the government sets it directly, with price controls or wage controls or minimum wage etc.

You said: has a hand in setting that market rate.

The government does not have a hand in setting the market rate in that sense. It adds on to the market rate with taxes or regulations but when it dictates the rate to the market directly, by removing any influence the natural market forces have over setting that rate, then it is no longer the market rate, it becomes the rate set by the government.

 

[elmarko]

This is what i call the "victim of their circumstances" argument. Leftists nearly always fall back on to this argument.

People have the same opportunities available, especially these days, there is literally no excuse. If all you can do to earn a wage is clean, then that is no ones fault but their own. The options are limitless, to think that someone is trapped in a cleaner job is realy a productive of this leftish mentality. It is no one responsibility to tell someone else how they can learn new skills and earn more money. It is simply people not taking responsibility for their own lives.

Now you are just embarrassing yourself.

Not everybody has the same opportunities, unless of course you pretend there is no such as as inequality of opportunity in the UK.

If we had a perfect equality of opportunity, why in some nations is the wealth of a parent a better or worse predictor for later life for a child than others - notably our nation (ones which have better social mobility, this metric has less value for predictive modelling).

 

[balky12]

Are you a multi-millionaire out of curiosity?. As if not could this same argument not be used against you?.

Where do these higher paid jobs come from?, if we had an infinite pot of high paid jobs to hand out to those who get an education then I'd be willing to take you seriously.

As this is not, or has ever been the case it's laughable.

No I'm not, but I am continually taking exams and progressing, to both better myself and increase my earning potential.

If you leave education with decent grades you will find a job. If you leave a decent University with a decent degree you will get a job. End of story. I've seen companies advertise for one position, hire two people, purely because they thought so much of both of them, they didn't want anyone else employing them.

Unfortunately some people out there aren't academic, nor particuarly good craftsmen, or perhaps just lazy, and they might be destined to low paid jobs forever. It's the way it works.

 

[elmarko]

As the government applies tax to nearly everything that adds on to the market rate at a fixed amount. It doesn't mean that it is no longer the market rate if government interference has caused it to increase or decrease. It is only no longer the market rate when the government sets it directly, with price controls or wage controls or minimum wage etc.

You said: has a hand in setting that market rate.

The government does not have a hand in setting the market rate in that sense. It adds on to the market rate with taxes or regulations but when it dictates the rate to the market directly, by removing any influence the natural market forces have over setting that rate, then it is no longer the market rate, it becomes the rate set by the government.

Is this the part where you continue to debate semantics because you have no valid arguments to justify your position?.

No I'm not, but I am continually taking exams and progressing, to both better myself and increase my earning potential.

If you leave education with decent grades you will find a job. If you leave a decent University with a decent degree you will get a job. End of story. I've seen companies advertise for one position, hire two people, purely because they thought so much of both of them, they didn't want anyone else employing them.

Unfortunately some people out there aren't academic, nor particuarly good craftsmen, or perhaps just lazy, and they might be destined to low paid jobs forever. It's the way it works.

So if you don't get a good job at the end of this course (say if there are none available or the market is saturated with equally skilled candidates) does it mean you are stupid & lazy?.

 

[balky12]

Now you are just embarrassing yourself.

Not everybody has the same opportunities, unless of course you pretend there is no such as as inequality of opportunity in the UK.

If we had a perfect equality of opportunity, why in some nations is the wealth of a parent a better or worse predictor for later life for a child than others - notably our nation (ones which have better social mobility, this metric has less value for predictive modelling).

Not getting into this argument. It's retarded. Especially when talking about the UK.

Everyone goes to school for free, recieves an education based on the nationwide curriculum. Everyone can then go to college for free. Everyone can then go to University (initially for free as you don't pay anyhting back until you finish)

Everyone in the UK gets a fair crack at life. Yes some people may start off in a slightly better place. But nothing is stopping anyone from finishing where their dreams are.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Now you are just embarrassing yourself.

Not everybody has the same opportunities, unless of course you pretend there is no such as as inequality of opportunity in the UK.

If we had a perfect equality of opportunity, why in some nations is the wealth of a parent a better or worse predictor for later life for a child than others - notably our nation (ones which have better social mobility, this metric has less value for predictive modelling).

I never mentioned the ridiculous word equality. It is you who is obsessed with equality. I already accept that there is no such thing as equality and there never will be.

People no matter their background rich or poor, no matter if they went through a terrible childhood or had the best parents. They all have the same opportunities in front of them.

I've said it a few times. There are countless examples of poor people with terrible backgrounds growing up to be very successful and there are countless examples of people born in to rich families with everything they need to be successful right in front of them but they end up doing nothing with their life. It is again a terrible terrible way to look at life, that people are a victim of their circumstances and it is the basis for marxist class based ideology.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Is this the part where you continue to debate semantics because you have no valid arguments to justify your position?.

So if you don't get a good job at the end of this course (say if there are none available or the market is saturated with equally skilled candidates) does it mean you are stupid & lazy?.

Is this the point where for once you concede that you were wrong about the "market rate" ?

 

[elmarko]

I never mentioned the ridiculous word equality. It is you who is obsessed with equality. I already accept that there is no such thing as equality and there never will be.

People no matter their background rich or poor, no matter if they went through a terrible childhood or had the best parents. They all have the same opportunities in front of them.

So let me guess this straight?.

A child who was sexually abused throughout childhood (resulted in diminished empathy, inability to commit & make meaningful bonds, poor engagement at school) - has exactly the same opportunities as a child who has committed intelligent parents, keen to teach them a myriad of skills & provide them with the support they need to flourish in life?.

I've said it a few times. There are countless examples of poor people with terrible backgrounds growing up to be very successful and there are countless examples of people born in to rich families with everything they need to be successful right in front of them but they end up doing nothing with their life. It is again a terrible terrible way to look at life, that people are a victim of their circumstances and it is the basis for marxist class based ideology.

Now this is priceless.

You take anecdotal examples of people turning out against the expected outcome as being evidence against the statistical evidence. The ideology you promote is simply unsupported by evidence, as if these factors had no role to play the rates of achievement across these groups based on experience would not be so statistically significant.

 

[balky12]

this is something i posted a page or so back. so il ask again where do the above go if theres nowhere for them to go ?

It's very pigeonholed, wouldn't you agree? Move to another company? Move to a different vocation?

Happens all the time in businesses. My current team for example consists of:

4 adjusters (myself included, of various ages and experience)
Our boss
Our bosses boss.

I can still progress in my role (authority etc.) but I accept, when I think I am ready to become more senior I will have to move company, unless my boss or his boss moves on or gets promoted.

Things get stuck, I will jump to another sub catagory within my market. Underwriting, Reinsurance, etc.

 

[anything I don't mind]

So let me guess this straight?.

A child who was sexually abused throughout childhood (resulted in diminished empathy, inability to commit & make meaningful bonds, poor engagement at school) - has exactly the same opportunities as a child who has committed intelligent parents, keen to teach them a myriad of skills & provide them with the support they need to flourish in life?.

Now this is priceless.

You take anecdotal examples of people turning out against the expected outcome as being evidence against the statistical evidence.

Yes. I have met people who have had terrible childhood who have grown up to run their own business employing many people and I have met people who were very rich and had good parents who ended up dying in a crack house.

It is almost like the leftish feed of this victim mentality, they love the story of the victim. Its almost engrained in to their psyche.

 

[elmarko]

Yes. I have met people who have had terrible childhood who have grown up to run their own business employing many people and I have met people who were very rich and had good parents who ended up dying in a crack house.

"You take anecdotal examples of people turning out against the expected outcome as being evidence against the statistical evidence."

Do you know what the above phrase means? (it was in the actual post you quoted but you seemed to have missed it then came out with another anecdotal experience).

 

[GAC]

It's very pigeonholed, wouldn't you agree? Move to another company? Move to a different vocation?

Happens all the time in businesses. My current team for example consists of:

4 adjusters (myself included, of various ages and experience)
Our boss
Our bosses boss.

I can still progress in my role (authority etc.) but I accept, when I think I am ready to become more senior I will have to move company, unless my boss or his boss moves on or gets promoted.

Things get stuck, I will jump to another sub catagory within my market. Underwriting, Reinsurance, etc.

i was just answering a specific example with it about cleaners getting gnvq's to advance themselves, myself iv had to gain training in security (something i did do in the past) as i cant physically work on the bins no more been a year since i got my qualification and i may finally have a job, but the idea of people just going to college and getting skilled and moving to a new role in a new company is hard for a lot of people especially without the hard exp to get in said career.

if its taken me a year to maybe find a job in security and i have some experience imagine what it could take for people starting 100% fresh along a career. its not just as easy as many on here make out.

 

[anything I don't mind]

"You take anecdotal examples of people turning out against the expected outcome as being evidence against the statistical evidence."

Do you know what the above phrase means? (it was in the actual post you quoted but you seemed to have missed it then came out with another anecdotal experience).

Of course ideally we would want everyone to have good child hood and great parents. This is of course not the case, so instead of telling these people who are not so fortunate that they are victims of their circumstances and as a result need the government to bring equality in to their lives like some hero in the night. You tell them that there is no excuse for failure. That they need to pull up their socks and take responsibility for their lives.

 

[balky12]

A child who was sexually abused throughout childhood (resulted in diminished empathy, inability to commit & make meaningful bonds, poor engagement at school) - has exactly the same opportunities as a child who has committed intelligent parents, keen to teach them a myriad of skills & provide them with the support they need to flourish in life?.

Now this is priceless.

Dude, what the hell.

I was enjoying reading some of your comments, much as I disagree, you do make a good case.

This however just tanked it. I have no words.

I will leave it with this.

Want to earn lots of money. Get an education. Work hard.

I know successful people with varying disabilites, vastly different upbringings, religious thoughts, wealth (or lack off), from varying places across the UK.

 

[Mr-White]

Wow, this country has bigger problems to deal with, exactly why I don't vote.

MW

 

[balky12]

i was just answering a specific example with it about cleaners getting gnvq's to advance themselves, myself iv had to gain training in security (something i did do in the past) as i cant physically work on the bins no more been a year since i got my qualification and i may finally have a job, but the idea of people just going to college and getting skilled and moving to a new role in a new company is hard for a lot of people especially without the hard exp to get in said career.

if its taken me a year to maybe find a job in security and i have some experience imagine what it could take for people starting 100% fresh along a career. its not just as easy as many on here make out.

I'm not saying it's easy. It is what is required though.

That again is the difference between earning little and earning a lot. The drive and determination to go and make something of yourself.

I hope the new roles comes though for you though.

 

[anything I don't mind]

It suits the big government welfare state to teach people that if they are not super rich or upper class, with awesome parents, that their circumstances are a valid excuse to do nothing productive with their lives. That way these people become dependant on the state and it suits these people because they no longer need to take responsibility for their lives.

Lets see some quotes on victim mentality and circumstances.

“The greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.”
― Martha Washington

“The only thing standing between you and your goal is the bs story you keep telling yourself as to why you can't achieve it.”
― Jordan Belfort

“Your complaints, your drama, your victim mentality, your whining, your blaming, and all of your excuses have NEVER gotten you even a single step closer to your goals or dreams. Let go of your nonsense. Let go of the delusion that you DESERVE better and go EARN it! Today is a new day!”
― Steve Maraboli, Unapologetically You: Reflections on Life and the Human Experience

“The problem that we have with a victim mentality is that we forget to see the blessings of the day. Because of this, our spirit is poisoned instead of nourished.”
― Steve Maraboli, Unapologetically You: Reflections on Life and the Human Experience

 

[GAC]

I'm not saying it's easy. It is what is required though.

That again is the difference between earning little and earning a lot. The drive and determination to go and make something of yourself.

I hope the new roles comes though for you though.

well we shall see got final interview with the manager of the site id be working at, the security company want me its now weather the actual site manager likes me or not.

fun fact is its min wage. even after doing the sia course which is 6 exams in total so not as easy as most people think. the amount of people who see it as turn up and guaranteed pass is just nuts.

but gotta do what ya gotta do to get experience, a similar role i saw advertised this week for was £8.50 an hour with better working conditions just cant get it as i dont have that hard experience.

 

[elmarko]

Dude, what the hell.

I was enjoying reading some of your comments, much as I disagree, you do make a good case.

This however just tanked it. I have no words.

I will leave it with this.

Want to earn lots of money. Get an education. Work hard.

I know successful people with varying disabilites, vastly different upbringings, religious thoughts, wealth (or lack off), from varying places across the UK.

What do you mean "what the hell?".

It was posing a question to somebody who believed that everybody has an equal opportunity, a response to this.

"People no matter their background rich or poor, no matter if they went through a terrible childhood or had the best parents. They all have the same opportunities in front of them." - (not my post)

Are you saying that you think that serious negative life experiences have no impact on a persons opportunities?, I'm fairly sure this isn't what you think.

It suits the big government welfare state to teach people that if they are not super rich or upper class, with awesome parents, that their circumstances are a valid excuse to do nothing productive with their lives. That way these people become dependant on the state and it suits these people because they no longer need to take responsibility for their lives.

Lets see some quotes on victim mentality and circumstances.

“The greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.”
― Martha Washington

“The only thing standing between you and your goal is the bs story you keep telling yourself as to why you can't achieve it.”
― Jordan Belfort

“Your complaints, your drama, your victim mentality, your whining, your blaming, and all of your excuses have NEVER gotten you even a single step closer to your goals or dreams. Let go of your nonsense. Let go of the delusion that you DESERVE better and go EARN it! Today is a new day!”
― Steve Maraboli, Unapologetically You: Reflections on Life and the Human Experience

“The problem that we have with a victim mentality is that we forget to see the blessings of the day. Because of this, our spirit is poisoned instead of nourished.”

― Steve Maraboli, Unapologetically You: Reflections on Life and the Human Experience

This is where you step further away from reality & start to post sentiments akin to the rubbish you read in "the secret".

All those quotes signify is the importance of perspective & attitude, with no thoughts about what actually causes people to posses them.

 

[balky12]

What do you mean "what the hell?".

It was posing a question to somebody who believed that everybody has an equal opportunity, a response to this.

"People no matter their background rich or poor, no matter if they went through a terrible childhood or had the best parents. They all have the same opportunities in front of them."

It's just a bit much for this kind of discussion. And that's like comparing extremes of the spectrum. Yes that may not be equal, but what is there stopping anyone from doing what they like?

Being abused as a child is far from the norm and hypothetical scenarios like that are just silly.

What he is trying to say is that no matter your race, beliefs, money situation, location or ambitions we have an education system that can set you up for a successful future.