Labours education plan.

[Deleted member 66701]

Smaller class sizes, better discipline?

Smaller class sizes are too expensive - no one will swallow the tax increases required to pay for it.

Better discipline? That's a tougher nut to crack, and I'm not sure teachers are the ones best placed to accomplish that.

 

[Caged]

I'm not sure you can cherry-pick aspects of another education system and just assume it will work here. As mentioned already, you have the difference in how the profession is viewed in each country, and a fundamental difference in what people think the education system is for. As long as parents think that their only obligation in the education of their kids is to kick them in the direction of school each morning then you're going to get the same results that you get now.

 

[Mr Badger]

They already have performance related pay, the national pay framework ended in September and now heads are free to choose how to apply pay rises (i.e. none because "the budget is tight this year and I don't care how good you are"). It's interesting though that in every profession/company where performance related pay has been introduced that there has never been a demonstratable increase in productivity.

Elevation of teaching as a profession certainly is a good idea.

Performance related pay is mostly a management tool to keep wages down for the majority and seldom has anything to do with actually improving performance.

 

[Mynight]

Maybe the majority aren't performing? .

 

[Caged]

Labour is a limping horse, they should be taken round the back and put out of it's misery. Enough people have woken up to the utterly failed grand experiment called socialism

New Labour weren't/aren't socialist.

 

[robgmun]

New Labour weren't/aren't socialist.

It wasn't until Gordon Brown took over, then it's been slipping back to it's old ways, but they feel the pull to the right because the general public aren't as left-wing as they're used to be. Of course left-wing activists get a lot of attention because they're usually Media types and teachers who get a lot of exposure in the press

 

[Caged]

Labour have gone nowhere near their old ways. They are pretty close to where the Tories stood around a decade ago, before they started moving to the right to cover off the UKIP protest vote in an attempt to appease voters who have been hit hard since 2008 and assume that selfish policies are going to reverse that downward trend.

The country would probably do quite well from a genuinely socialist government. The current ideology doesn't seem to be working for the majority.

 

[Mr Badger]

Labour have gone nowhere near their old ways. They are pretty close to where the Tories stood around a decade ago, before they started moving to the right to cover off the UKIP protest vote in an attempt to appease voters who have been hit hard since 2008 and assume that selfish policies are going to reverse that downward trend.

The country would probably do quite well from a genuinely socialist government. The current ideology doesn't seem to be working for the majority.

Don't you find the "I'm all right Jack" attitude of the typical working class Tory to be refreshingly brazen, with no hint of irony as to how they are being shafted by a system that consistently delivers on little else than making the rich richer?

 

[Muffin`]

My argument is that MPs should take a similar oath of integrity, professionalism and ethics. Expenses scandals, house flipping, subsidised bars and restaurants and lucrative boardroom side jobs suggest to me that politics needs cleaning up long before teaching.

Would that be as worthless as the Police Attestation?

 

[RDM]

The country would probably do quite well from a genuinely socialist government. The current ideology doesn't seem to be working for the majority.

Isn't it working for the majority? I have no real idea but would say that most people are doing OK and probably have a better standard of living than most other time periods if you take the long view.

I'm not sure a genuinely socialist government would be better for the majority as every time it has been tried it hasn't really worked out brilliantly.

 

[Muffin`]

Isn't it working for the majority? I have no real idea but would say that most people are doing OK and probably have a better standard of living than most other time periods if you take the long view.

I'm not sure a genuinely socialist government would be better for the majority as every time it has been tried it hasn't really worked out brilliantly.

I thought the same when I read that, I believe our standard of living is currently excellent and I have very little grumbles. France elected a 'Genuinely Socialist' leader in 2010 and if any country would be appreciative of one they'd be it but he appears to be floundering, is it because globalization has moved the world on from the 1970's where a bit of protectionism and jobs for the boys would save you now .. doesn't?

 

[Caged]

If you ignore the post-war period which is probably the closest we have come to a socialist government then you could say it hasn't worked out brilliantly. Yes it was paid for with debt, but it was serviceable debt and a lower percentage of GDP than the debt at the moment.

Comparing our standard of living to history is a bit of a red herring. Things are supposed to improve over time as the human race collectively develops.

It would be nice to see someone attempting to address the question of what do you do when there are less jobs than people due to a shift in industry, things becoming less labour intensive etc. Do we look at the universal basic income? Do we keep opening new coffee shops? There's only so long you can kick the can down the road for.

 

[robgmun]

The country would probably do quite well from a genuinely socialist government. The current ideology doesn't seem to be working for the majority.

Only socialists would do well from a socialist government, i.e mostly people in public sector jobs and those living on benefits.

Personally I've done really well in the last 5 years, and exceptionally well in the last 2 because my attitude has changed somewhat, I'm not so idealist like i was a few years ago and tried being selfish for a change in my career, and it basically boomed almost as soon as i changed.

Gordon Gekko might have been onto something after all!

 

[Tefal]

What's funny is if this was the way things were in a film about some alternate society everyone would accept it and think it a good thing.

But we're British we can't show enthusiasm for something we must be apathetic and slightly sarcastic about everything

 

[Muffin`]

What's funny is if this was the way things were in a film about some alternate society everyone would accept it and think it a good thing.

But we're British we can't show enthusiasm for something we must be apathetic and slightly sarcastic about everything

It's window dressing for voters... why not implement contractual obligations to ensure teachers are up to the job by a review system which allows crap ones to be retrained or sacked?

 

[RDM]

If you ignore the post-war period which is probably the closest we have come to a socialist government then you could say it hasn't worked out brilliantly. Yes it was paid for with debt, but it was serviceable debt and a lower percentage of GDP than the debt at the moment.

I was taking the wider view and looking world wide rather than just the UK. Socialism when enacted generally goes fairly badly. What seems to work for more people is a regulated capitalist system with some socialist policies. Like pretty much all countries with a decent standard of living have.

Comparing our standard of living to history is a bit of a red herring. Things are supposed to improve over time as the human race collectively develops.

History says otherwise. There have been many times where standards of living have gone down. Convince me things would be better under a socialist system.

 

[D.P.]

Smaller classes and selection.

Yep, limit classes to 12-15 pupils per teacher and select children of similar abilities to be in each class. Furthermore, for older children provide schools with different focuses and abilities; some for the smarter more academically minded, some for the more hands-on practical kids as a forerunner to an apprenticeship, and schools for those who are struggling and need closer attention to master the basics to become a productive member of society.

Yeah, there should be more respect for teachers, but then many members of society deserve. Uh more respect (medical workers, academic doctors, engineers, scientists, some politicians, and the countless supporting staff that help people in these lines of work, plus countless other professions). We grossly underpay teachers, academics, engineers and scientist in the UK to the point that some professions look more like charity work despite needing the highest educational requires one can get.

But I don't like to paint praise with big brush and sweep others under the carpet.

 

[Caged]

Yep, limit classes to 12-15 pupils per teacher and select children of similar abilities to be in each class. Furthermore, for older children provide schools with different focuses and abilities; some for the smarter more academically minded, some for the more hands-on practical kids as a forerunner to an apprenticeship, and schools for those who are struggling and need closer attention to master the basics to become a productive member of society.

And who pays for this?

 

[FoxEye]

Lolbour.

You know that programme where a professional and a fake {something} were both put in the same job, and a panel had to work out who was who?

I get the same vibe from Milliband. It's like he's bluffing his way through but he's actually an unemployed bus driver who slipped into Westminster one day and hasn't looked back since.

There's no possible way they'll get elected next year. Hopefully.

 

[Mynight]

The apprentice?