LAN tournament "scam"

[aln]

So I happen to be part of a small COD community, which LAN tournaments are often created by.

One such tournament was created by some kid calling Mint, and he made it look like he had the backing of a reasonable organisation and people started paying him for the LAN he set-up. The conditions are all set-up in the thread, which I obviously can't link because there’s a lot of unhappy swearies but these are:

I'm happy to announce the CoD2 LAN. Our target is 16 teams. Any team who pays for a ticket and is then unable to go must email Sam.L[at]team-winfakt.org to advise them of a ticket sale.
For any questions about the event, also email Sam.L[at]team-winfakt.org

Disclaimer: Ticket costs will be refunded only if the event does not go ahead.

How to sign up:
Please send an email to Sam.L[at]team-winfakt.org with the following information:

-Team Name + Nationality
-Roster (Nickname + Full Name) + Nationality
-Spokesperson per team & his contact information
-Subject title: "CoD2 LAN Signup - [YOUR TEAMNAME]"

Dates: 12th, 13th November.
Time: 09:00 GMT
Location: *CONFIRMED* Cybergames Zone, Newcastle. United Kingdom.
Entry fee: €350 - Bank Transfer.
Prize purse: €4,000 (If a minimum of 16 teams signup)
TUP / BYOC: This is a turn-up-and-play event. You don't need to bring your PC.
Bootcamp: Bootcamping is possible on the Friday, please email for more info on that.
Casting: Rage TV


Prize Triggers:

All before sponsors, possible hardware and prize money added on in near future


12 Teams
1st: 1500€
2nd 750€
3rd: 350€

16 Teams
1st: 2000€
2nd: 1250€
3rd: 750€

You can probably ask dr google to find the thread.

Now unfortunately the story is full of holes. Somewhere in the thread he's agreed (before anyone signed up) that he needs a minimum of 8 teams, I can't see this at the current time. He needed to achieve these 8 teams by a predefined deadline, and word is he's moved the deadline back two weeks since his original deadline, but once again this is an internet forum where things can be easily edited (I know, stupid of us to arrange LANs in such a format, but it's went well for many years thus far).

Anyway 5 teams have paid, and the deadline was tomorrow so everyone was happily thinking they're getting refunds, as 3 weeks is too short notice for a realistic amount of time to book flights, accommodation and annual leave in time for the LAN. Pretty much every team has confirmed they're not going and requested a refund. He then comes out of nowhere saying that's he's now got 3 mix teams from random people who frequent the LAN centre and that they're paying him before the deadline.

Now I guess easier to wait and see what he does tomorrow before I really do anything, but i figured I could source some amusing advice from GD before hand. Opinions?

 

[aln]

It costs €1600 to host a LAN event?

It's been documented to cost more, as often the venues will need to close down to accommodate the tournament. I reckon the people organising these LANs probably lack negotiating skills, and are probably skimming from the top as well.

In any event, the venue appears to be aware of the kid as they advertised the COD4 version of the same LAN which also resulted in a failure. I did contact the venue, and asked them to step into and help us come to a reasonable discourse, but no response as of yet.

 

[aln]

To hire the place out probably costs a few 100 and then he'll be making a profit, not sure he says anywhere he won't be turning a profit.

To the OP: Not sure why you're saying it's a scam, you've paid to go and he's organised it. You were expecting it not to happen so you'd get a refund, but it is, is there anything to suggest if you go then it won't happen?

It wouldn't seem unreasonable to move the deadline back if it meant he could find enough teams to make it go ahead, he has probably had to pay a deposit to secure the venue.

We organise these things well in the future so they are feasible for people from other counties to attend, and thus changing pushing the deadline back is completely unreasonable as it's made the event completely unaffordable at this point for some of the guys who were supposed to be coming. Deadlines are put in place to allow those who sign up to know when the LAN will be confirmed (which it has not been at this point), so we can book time off work, and buy travel tickets at prices which are affordable.

As for the "scam" part, the quotes were my attempt at detailing that this may not legally be considered a scam, but both the actions of this individual and the creation of 3 teams out of thin air make the whole ordeal morally ambiguous, and at this point the only reason our team is attending is so the kid can't just pocket the money without providing all the things stipulated in the agreement we had when we signed up for the tournament. On that note, the agreements made make the LAN as without those agreements, there is no reason for us to sign up. There is also nothing to suggest he should be able to change any of the agreements after someone has paid him.

 

[aln]

Really you could have done with someone clarifying that if enough teams hadn't paid up by the deadline then the event would not go ahead. As it is the agreement is that if the event goes ahead he won't refund. Despite it's relevance to individuals I'm not sure that the deadline for payment being moved would affect that.

This was 100% clarified before any of the teams signed up, but because this is an online forum with an edit post function the problem isn't so much the clarification as it is proving there was any clarification after he removes it.

Also I don't believe changing the terms of an agreement is generally reasonable, however I'd gather many companies stipulate they retain the ability to do this in their T&C, which what allows this to happen, where he on the other hand has no such agreement.

Why is everyone paying in Euros for a British event?

Teams signed up to the event consist of 1 UK team, 1 Finnish team, 1 Dutch team, 1 Swedish team, and one bunch of random misfits. Whilst the event is taking place in the UK, it's not uncommon to discuss these things in euros.

I think his name is enough to know its un professional.

Whilst I understand your point, this is a gaming community which successfully runs events like this quite a lot. It's probably a good idea for people to change their ways, but these aren't supposed to be highly professional run events, they're supposed to be members of the community coming together to run a LAN amongst themselves.

This is where the problem comes from, the guy seems to think it's appropriate to throw a LAN funded by our community for some random people nobody knows, when the only reason we were even remotely interested is because we'd have been able to compete against some other top teams in the game we play.

Now obviously there are some points we just cannot argue against, but if we could find a way to null and void the agreement, I believe we'd be morally right to do so. I also think we probably can, we just need to prove it. Regardless, keep those opinions coming.

 

[aln]

Its probably you guys (the attendees) that are more at risk of breaking the contract now Just go & have fun

We'll go, but we won't have fun when we'll be the only team there. The only reason for us to go at this point is to claim #1 prize, and earn some of our money back. None of the other teams will attend on the simple basis that'll be nothing but a money sink for a pretty poor event.

And how would he have scammed people if 8 teams had registered by the deadline?

Sure he's probably making a fair whack of profit, but it doesn't look like he's "scamming" people.

First of all, the guys like 17. It's entirely possible you're giving him more credit that he's due, as it's entirely possible he just didn't engage his brain in the whole ordeal.

That said, I am of similar opinion that he's probably spent a portion of it unwisely, and this is his attempt at getting around the fact he can't actually pay us back. However, this is his own fault, and he should have considered that when arranging the LAN, and he should have considered the deadline before spending other peoples money.

I'm pretty sure if you've read the thread you'll come to the same conclusion as everyone else which is what he's done is morally wrong, despite the fact if the attendees have no recourse.

This kid is his first name Makina by any chance .....

No, his name is Sam Lockton, he lives in Newcastle and he attends Northumbria college. He's pretty loose with the personal details.

He isnt scamming anyone he's just another incompetent 16 year old thinking he can organise events because he's l33t at Cod4.

Actually at this point he has taken money from a bunch of people for an agreed upon service, then he's went ahead and changed the terms of that service. On top of that, if he has made up 3 fake teams then he basically is scamming us due to the simple fact we had an agreement of 8 teams minimum, and there’s not going to be an event for those of us who do attend (we're the only team who can still manage it).

 

[aln]

If yours is the only team that turns up then you win No.1 prize money right?

I'm sure that will be more than the entrance+travel costs yeah?

win win

Was planning to win anyway, but not as the expense of conning a bunch of other teams. The teams signed up also happen to contain some of the friendliest people in the game, I'd choose to get them their money back before I'd choose to keep it for myself, given the circumstances.

Well yeah, but at the expense of the european community... You need time to book off work, book flights etc... And obviously then when the deadline passes and there aren't enough teams then people want a refund - not see their money spent to arrange a local LAN party for like the local scrub kids...

Exactly.