Large Hadron Collider could test hyperdrive propulsion!

Teki187 · 9 Oct 2009 at 18:33

The world's most powerful particle accelerator, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), could be used to test the principles behind hyperdrive, a possible future form of spacecraft propulsion that could drive spacecraft at a good fraction of the speed of light.

The idea of a hyperdrive propulsion system arises from the work of an influential German mathematician, David Hilbert, in the 1920s. Hilbert studied the interactions between a stationary mass and a relativistic particle moving away from it. He calculated that if the particle was moving faster than around half the speed of lightm an inertial, distant observer would see the particle as being repelled by the mass.

Now a physicist in the U.S., Franklin Felber, has taken Hilbert's almost forgotten proposal and reversed it, calculating the repulsion should be mutual, with relativistic particles also repelling the stationary mass. Felber suggests this hypervelocity propulsion could be used to propel a stationary mass to a sizeable proportion of the speed of light.

Felber likens the idea to an elastic collision between two objects of very different mass. If a heavy mass collides with a light stationary mass, the lighter mass rebounds at around twice the speed of the larger mass. In the hypervelocity propulsion drive a relativistic particle would repel a stationary mass at a speed greater than its own.

Felber has also suggested his theory could be tested in the LHC, since it will be able to accelerate particles sufficiently to generate the repulsive force. Felber wants to install a resonant test mass beside the particle beam line inside the LHC and measure the tiny forces produced in it by the accelerated particles passing by. The mass would not interfere with the beam, and hence would not disrupt the LHC's normal operations.

The LHC, near Geneva in Switzerland, is the largest and highest energy particle accelerator in the world. It is built in a three-meter-wide circular tunnel 50-175 meters underground and 27 kilometers in diameter. It is designed to accelerate particles and smash them together to help scientists test the predictions of particle physics. It can send a particle through the 27 km ring at 99.99% of the speed of light.

If the LHC cannot be used, Felber suggests the idea could be tested at the Tevatron particle accelerator at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in Batavia, Illinois. Until the LHC resumes operation, this is still the highest energy particle accelerator in operation, but since the energy is smaller than at LHC, the forces produced would also be smaller.

Source

Bring on Coruscant!!!

Dark_Angel · 9 Oct 2009 at 18:34

/reads with major interest.

Van Hellseek · 9 Oct 2009 at 18:36

Crowbars at the ready.

dangerstat · 9 Oct 2009 at 18:37

seek said:
Crowbars at the ready.

I don't have one

Azza · 9 Oct 2009 at 18:37

It could be used for a lot of things, once it works fine.

Hitman_Leon · 9 Oct 2009 at 18:37

Pines for space truckers license application form.

TaKeN · 9 Oct 2009 at 18:38

Azza said:
It could be used for a lot of things, once it works fine.

Whats currently going on with it?

Last I heard they 'fired it up' so to speak... only for it damage itself to a point where it needed considerable repair.

Sime · 9 Oct 2009 at 18:38

Yey for the large hardon collider! *tee hee hee*

Teki187 · 9 Oct 2009 at 18:39

No hotlinking of images. Thundycat.

Click to expand...

Tefal · 9 Oct 2009 at 18:43

TaKeN said:
Whats currently going on with it?

Last I heard they 'fired it up' so to speak... only for it damage itself to a point where it needed considerable repair.

yeah there was some faulty electronics irrc, they;lve taken the time to upgrade the atlas sensor while they wait for it to be fixed.

twist3d0n3 · 9 Oct 2009 at 20:10

awesome news, i sincerely cannot wait for the LHC to be fully operational.

i remember reading a while back if they get the required evidence of the higgs boson, that it would also pave the way for anti-mavity

wipeout 2097 could become a reality (just hopefully before 2097

)

gillywibble · 9 Oct 2009 at 20:15

Interesting stuff :cool:

Kainz · 9 Oct 2009 at 20:18

Prepare for LUDICROUS SPEED....!

twist3d0n3 · 9 Oct 2009 at 20:19

hehehe i watched spaceballs again last night

bloody ace film

edit: Dark Helmet: whats wrong colonel sanders, CHICKEN? xD

radar19 · 9 Oct 2009 at 20:21

Pfft, warpdrive is where its at.

Kainz · 9 Oct 2009 at 20:26

twist3d0n3 said:
Dark Helmet: whats wrong colonel sanders, CHICKEN? xD

Angilion · 10 Oct 2009 at 02:21

TaKeN said:
Whats currently going on with it?

Last I heard they 'fired it up' so to speak... only for it damage itself to a point where it needed considerable repair.

It's currently chilling.

The damage was extensive and took a lot of repairing. They designed, installed and tested some additional systems to prevent any similar failure in the future from being so damaging. It was a simple electrical failure, but it resulted in liquid helium spewing all over the place and that wrecked more stuff. So they wanted to be sure that the new kit would stop that, which took more time. The whole thing has to be cooled close to absolute zero to work, and that takes a lot of time. 6 of the 8 sectors are under 2K, which is cold enough. The other two sectors are approaching it. It should be back in business before the end of the month.

digipeep · 10 Oct 2009 at 02:56

How will they solve the problem of inertia.

In Star Trek they use "Inertia Dampers". I got a feeling this is going to be soemthing that will not be solved.

For those who aren't clued up about inertia, when you speed up coming off a slip road when you join the motorway and go from 30pmh to 70mph in 10seconds you feel yourself being pushed back into your seat. Now amplify that 1000 times a try to imagine what would happen if you were in a space craft capable at travelling just 10% the speed of light, and the pilot put his foot on the pedal. You'd be squash in a millionth of a second.

ChrisJSY · 10 Oct 2009 at 03:04

digipeep said:
How will they solve the problem of inertia.

In Star Trek they use "Inertia Dampers". I got a feeling this is going to be soemthing that will not be solved.

For those who aren't clued up about inertia, when you speed up coming off a slip road when you join the motorway and go from 30pmh to 70mph in 10seconds you feel yourself being pushed back into your seat. Now amplify that 1000 times a try to imagine what would happen if you were in a space craft capable at travelling just 10% the speed of light, and the pilot put his foot on the pedal. You'd be squash in a millionth of a second.

Not if you get there slowly, which this would hypothetically do.
Oh and you're in a zero mavity environment for the most part.

Inertial dampers are to stop you being thrown about when you manage to create artificial mavity and need to accelerate/turn/stop in a scenario you'd otherwise die.
None of which exist.

Angilion · 10 Oct 2009 at 06:53

ChrisJSY said:
Not if you get there slowly, which this would hypothetically do.
Oh and you're in a zero mavity environment for the most part.

Inertial dampers are to stop you being thrown about when you manage to create artificial mavity and need to accelerate/turn/stop in a scenario you'd otherwise die.
None of which exist.

Either my understanding of physics is completely wrong or a lack of artificial mavity wouldn't help with massive changes in velocity. You'd still be flung into whatever was opposite to the direction of change in velocity. With the sort of changes that would be useful in a spaceship, you'd be flung hard enough to smash or smear you.