Lats exercise

WantoN · 28 Jul 2009 at 20:29

Freefaller said:
Yup that's a good one, suppinated grip BORs really hit the lats well if you do them properly.

For me I find supinated grips give me too much biceps involvement and I much prefer an overhand (pronated grip) but I think we've discussed that before (maybe I'm built funny

)

Single arm rows should really be hitting the lats hard, if they aren't, your form is poor.

Pullovers, chins, BORS and single arm rows are all effective for lat work

Ant

Freefaller · 28 Jul 2009 at 21:54

No you're right there is some bicep involvement

However whether suppinated or not, unless you're pulling to your belly and you're bent over you won't hit the lats at all, pulling up to the chest will do upper back and shoulders, pulling up to the belly you'll get back involvement.

Banzai_Joe · 29 Jul 2009 at 08:56

Freefaller said:
No you're right there is some bicep involvement However whether suppinated or not, unless you're pulling to your belly and you're bent over you won't hit the lats at all, pulling up to the chest will do upper back and shoulders, pulling up to the belly you'll get back involvement.

Yup, and thats why people reckon one arm rows are upper back/shoulder movements, cos they don't do it right.

I also like supinated grip for BORs, but it does hit my biceps a little too much, so i vary it.
I always pull towards the belly/waist.....works for me.

WantoN · 29 Jul 2009 at 18:21

I'm a firm believer in visualisation and muscle focus; if you understand a little of the size, shape and mechanics of the muscles you're working, and then visualise them contract and (in this case) puling the elbow in, them you work them most effectively. Likewise if you visualise something like a BOR as an arm workout your lats suffer considerably.

Ant :cool:

Makunouchi · 29 Jul 2009 at 19:05

I agree completely WantoN, as soon as I slowed myself down on pullups and actually thought about what muscles I should be feeling it on, and actively tried to engage those muscles, the whole exercise felt totally different (and better).

Freefaller · 29 Jul 2009 at 19:14

Technique > weight.

Doing AGVT has really helped me get my form 100% right - sure I've dropped the weights significantly, but boy it's having a bigger effect!

collisster · 29 Jul 2009 at 19:27

I'm doing the one armed rows now and can feel it in the lats but more so in my triceps!

LabR@t · 29 Jul 2009 at 19:36

Freefaller said:
Technique > weight.

I started training at home instead of gym I have been using less weight as I own less plates but form has been spot on ( no ego lifting) and I have made more progress in last 6 months that I did all last year at gym

Freefaller · 29 Jul 2009 at 19:57

collisster said:
I'm doing the one armed rows now and can feel it in the lats but more so in my triceps!

Triceps?! You're definitely not doing them right mate.

Banzai_Joe · 29 Jul 2009 at 20:05

WantoN said:
I'm a firm believer in visualisation and muscle focus; if you understand a little of the size, shape and mechanics of the muscles you're working, and then visualise them contract and (in this case) puling the elbow in, them you work them most effectively. Likewise if you visualise something like a BOR as an arm workout your lats suffer considerably.

Ant

Quoted for theeeee truth!
Back is about the only workout i've really felt that connection to tbh, this was back in the day though when i trained hard'n'heavy, but i totally 100% agree with you mate. I'm looking forward to that day agina sometime soon.

Freefaller · 29 Jul 2009 at 20:10

Visualisation is so important - surprised more people don't do it - it's common sense. In fact I find it helps me on big 200kg+ lifts, thinking of the weight being lifted and controlling the whole of my body to cope with the effort it really helps.

Even for the 100kg+ lifts, I get the better "feel" for the bar, and a better explosive drive as I concentrate on the muscles that need to be used. IT's taken me 3 years to work it out though!

Banzai_Joe · 29 Jul 2009 at 20:20

I was gonna say, i don't find it easy to find that connection. It really all depends on your mindset when you're in the gym. I can have a perfectly good workout without the full on mind-muscle meld, but it sure is great when you 'feeeeel' it.
I get the feel on the 20kg+ lifts too, then i put the dumbell down and use the other arm

Freefaller · 29 Jul 2009 at 21:32

Yeah getting that "feel" is brilliant - suddenly you realise you've got muscles in places you never thought possible!

collisster · 30 Jul 2009 at 01:26

Freefaller said:
Triceps?! You're definitely not doing them right mate.

one armed rows yeah?

Freefaller · 30 Jul 2009 at 08:37

Yes, the tricep is a stabiliser during that exercise nothing more, it shouldn't be being "hit" hard at all. So I think you must not be doing them right.

Mansize_tissue · 30 Jul 2009 at 14:54

Freefaller said:
Yes, the tricep is a stabiliser during that exercise nothing more, it shouldn't be being "hit" hard at all. So I think you must not be doing them right.

I find my triceps are worked more than expected when doing one-arms rows, too. I think it's because I'm concentrating too much on not contracting my bicep (in order to isolate my back more), that I'm holding the dumbbell in place more with my tricep.

WantoN · 30 Jul 2009 at 15:17

Mansize_tissue said:
I find my triceps are worked more than expected when doing one-arms rows, too. I think it's because I'm concentrating too much on not contracting my bicep (in order to isolate my back more), that I'm holding the dumbbell in place more with my tricep.

Any given muscle can only contract, or relax.

The triceps muscle is responsible for extention at the elbow, as it flexes, it extends the arm from a 90 degree angle to form a straight (180 degree) line. Triceps involvement in a single arm row is very minimal, used only as minorstabilisation (stabilisation in a rowing movement is provided primarily by the rotator cuff, medial and posterior deltoids). In a row, the triceps are not a prime mover, and shouldn't be felt to be working.

Traditionally, a well performed row will involve: Lats, Traps, Biceps, Posterior (and a little medial) deltoid, rhomboids, rotator cuff, and a little spinae erectae. With the prime movers being the Lats, Biceps and Posterior Delts.

If you can feel triceps, summat weird is occuring :confused:

Ant

WantoN · 30 Jul 2009 at 15:18

WantoN said:
Any given muscle can only contract, or relax.

The triceps muscle is responsible for extention at the elbow, as it flexes, it extends the arm from a 90 degree angle to form a straight (180 degree) line. Triceps involvement in a single arm row is very minimal, used only as minorstabilisation (stabilisation in a rowing movement is provided primarily by the rotator cuff, medial and posterior deltoids). In a row, the triceps are not a prime mover, and shouldn't be felt to be working.

Traditionally, a well performed row will involve: Lats, Traps, Biceps, Posterior (and a little medial) deltoid, rhomboids, rotator cuff, and a little spinae erectae. With the prime movers being the Lats, Biceps and Posterior Delts.

If you can feel triceps, summat weird is occuring The only way you work the tris is to maintain lat, trap bis and delt engagement, and actively pushing against their resistance.

Ant

Jimi · 30 Jul 2009 at 17:51

LabR@t said:
bent over rows with palms up

I've been doing bent over barbell rows palms down, didn't think to try palms up. Thanks!

LabR@t · 30 Jul 2009 at 18:04

Jimi said:
I've been doing bent over barbell rows palms down, didn't think to try palms up. Thanks!

hits lats more palms up, back parallel and keep bar close as possible to legs