Many people are not reasonable which is why I dislike such subjective laws. You forget to take the knife out of the car or the bag and you're screwed because you don't have a "valid reason" for possessing one, terrible lawmaking quite frankly.
Law clarification on carrying a knife
- Thread starter thepeganator
- Start date
Many people are not reasonable which is why I dislike such subjective laws. You forget to take the knife out of the car or the bag and you're screwed because you don't have a "valid reason" for possessing one, terrible lawmaking quite frankly.
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I think the OP's approach is reasonable, a small folding knife (like a swiss army knife or such) is perfectly OK - in fact you could have a whole chef's knife set if you had them in a backpack in the boot, nobody could possibly reasonably argue that they were "on your person" in that situation. What are they worried about? That you'll get a road-rage fit and tell the guy who rear-ended you to hang on while you dug to the bottom of your backpack to get the cleaver out?
Oh, sorry, I thought vegetarians WERE the BBQ!
I'll see your sad little SLI pizza slicer and raise you THIS!
Oh, sorry, I thought vegetarians WERE the BBQ!
SLI knife?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mezzaluna-double-shaped-hardwood-cutting/dp/B003TWRS8I
I think I'll just be sensible with what I carry, and make sure it's not my massive chefs knife!
I'll see your sad little SLI pizza slicer and raise you THIS!
In the context of certain laws it's necessary. In this situation however it criminalises many innocent people (with no perceptible benefit) which is unacceptable.
However the way the law is worded means that the Police can use their discretion.
If you can reasonably say "I was at a BBQ the other day and forgot it was still there" you're pretty covered, assuming you're not known to the police for violent offences involving weapons.
That is the only way this sort of law can work, otherwise it's either legal to carry a knife all the time, or it's illegal to carry one at all, or criminals will learn very very quickly how to carry one and be able to claim they were legal.
The real problem imo comes from where the law tries to be too exact - for example under your example if you had to have a specific reason for (that particular) knife at that exact time you would be really screwed, whilst someone who is fairly obviously up to no good but thinks to put the knife with some bbq tongs and a 99p disposable bbq would be fine.
I would much rather "wooly" wording on laws that allow the police, cps and ultimately the magistrates or jury the ability to decide if the law as it was meant was broken, than a pure black and white law that may be much more complicated in the real world to follow, and means that there is no discretion or common sense involved.
Remember, if it were to go to court, the CPS would have to convince 12 normal people that you broke the law intentionally beyond reasonable doubt, that is quite hard to do when you cannot prove intent or a reason to break the law and the defendant has an understandable reason for what they have done (I doubt there is anyone who drives who hasn't forgotten to take something out of the boot at one time or another, especially after a day out or a holiday).
Problem is that anyone can say they were at a BBQ to get around the law, which means either it's effectively legal to carry knives or the police have to arrest innocent people. So in the end you may as well not have the law in the first place. I'm not suggesting a white list, preferably just getting rid of the law so I don't have to worry about being arrested for carrying a screwdriver.
Aye, some of the "black and white" laws are the ones that people tend to complain about the most, even the most simple ones (speeding and driving without insurance are great examples as you can be done for them without intent*).
Let alone something much more complicated with potentially hundreds of variables and exemptions, a screwdriver is a bladed item thus potentially illegal in a public place.
The list of specific exemptions just for them would be a nightmare - you need to allow for tradesmen, but do you allow for them only whilst using it (back in a secure tool box after every use), for the duration of the job (in which case are they allowed to say keep it in their tool belt whilst having a coffee, or only whilst they are actually working on the job), how about moving between locations on a single job...And that's before you start on the list of "tradesmen" and the job definitions for the exemptions (builders, plumbers, electricians, joiners/carpenters, telecoms engineers, car mechanics etc are just obvious examples of people who might need a screwdriver in public).
Hence like you I prefer some discretion and the reasonable allowance in the law, much simpler and covers pretty much every circumstance without the need for a rule book the size of the Yellow pages just for the "legal uses of bladed items and where they are allowed".
*Why it is always so important to read your insurance documentation at every renewal and not to assume the policy is the same as your previous one in every regard (especially things like DOC).
What would you suggest goes on the blacklist that would still allow the police to do their job without either inconveniencing innocent people more, or giving the criminals a very simple get out of jail free card to play every time?
Both "black lists" and "whitelists" have very major problems, and are much harder to define and understand fully in RL than the "reasonable use" idea.
I doubt all but the most stupid criminals are going to say when caught with a meat cleaver down the back of their trousers "yeah, well I was going to hit Charlie with it, coz he called Britney-Alicia a ****".
Flat end or posidrive?
To be fair, you hardly need a large sharp knife for a BBQ.
If you're having a BBQ in a public place and had a big kitchen knife, I can't imagine the law would be that happy about it. Your intent maybe innocent enough, but others aren't to know that, plus there's the added factor of the general public wandering about, any of which could be a psycho.
My advice would be, if you're going to have a BBQ in public, prep all your food before heading out, sure take a few dining knives and a pen knife, but I wouldn't take anymore than that.
I got threaten with a screwdriver by some solvent sniffing junkie once, there was a miscommunication, I gave him the wrong sort of pounds.
If you're having a BBQ in a public place and had a big kitchen knife, I can't imagine the law would be that happy about it. Your intent maybe innocent enough, but others aren't to know that, plus there's the added factor of the general public wandering about, any of which could be a psycho.
My advice would be, if you're going to have a BBQ in public, prep all your food before heading out, sure take a few dining knives and a pen knife, but I wouldn't take anymore than that.
I got threaten with a screwdriver by some solvent sniffing junkie once, there was a miscommunication, I gave him the wrong sort of pounds.
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Intent can be a difficult thing to prove so it is easier and much more sensible in a situation where we do not have unlimited funds to pursue cases attempting to prove intent. Hence living in society we accept certain curtailments of absolute liberty for the benefit of slightly increased security (whether it be real or perceived). The law on knives is one of those curtailments - very few people have a reasonable and legitimate need to carry a knife above X" long and to keep carrying one about when it isn't anything to do with your employment or a specific task is somewhat reckless, not because you will necessarily utilise it for a criminal offence but because other people could take it if it is not stored safely.
How does a chef transport a knife then?
It's in the post you quoted - "a good excuse". Essentially if necessary as part of your job then it will be fine - you still need to take adequate precautions as carelessness with knives is frowned upon but it's not a problem in and of itself.
Whilst it's not illegal to own one (though you now can't buy one if it's not an antique), carrying a balisong of any length is illegal in the UK.
Similarly, it's not illegal to own (at home) a switchblade / flick knife (blade is sprung and comes out on the press of a button), but is illegal to carry one. However, if it's not sprung (operated by a small lever on the back, generally), then it's legal to carry if it's under 3". Leatherman (and equivalent) make knives like this for sale in the UK.
My ex's brother was caught carrying a screw driver, when questioned by the police why he was carrying it he explained that someone was after him and he needed it for self defence. He got away with it.
I've got samurai swords from Japan but they never leave my house
I once left some scissors in a jacket after cutting string in the garage, a week later wore said jacket to a football match, only after getting out did i realise they where in my inside pocket, if i had been searched i would have been right up **** creek. mind you it would have been my own fault!
I don't think you can legally carry a leatherman with it's locking blade without good reason.
Last time one of these threads came up someone linked to an article of a man who got prosecuted for carrying one IIRC.
I only carry mine when I'm going to work and put it in my bag.
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You can get five years for carrying a butter knife 
Stick to plastic utensils and you could get away with only a fine.
Stick to plastic utensils and you could get away with only a fine.
