Lean Bulking Calories - 15 x lb bodyweight?!

[Nitrojan]

Im in a similar position to you here.
I've always been a chubber, a couple of years ago I was 17.5 stone, this year I clocked in at 14 stone with hardly any muscle.

As you said you can cut and look like you have not got much. However, if you were to bulk and do it sensibly and not eat copious amounts of food but more than a lean bulk requires then you could gain a fair amount of muscle (which has happened in my case). Yes you'll get a few extra lbs of fat in there, I've gathered some, but in the long run you ARE going to cut up so why not bulk now but be sensible and cut after a 4 - 6 month bulk?

Well near enough. It comes out as 2790, when I am taking in about 2900 on workout days and 2600 on off days.

So you're both doing pretty much the same thing - just eating slightly over 15 x lb bodyweight? And you're both seeing good gains?

 

[Aedus]

So you're both doing pretty much the same thing - just eating slightly over 15 x lb bodyweight? And you're both seeing good gains?

Yeah I'm seeing gains, but i'm also getting some fat along with it, so this intended "Lean bulk" isn't very lean at all. So I've just decided to bulk up properly and then cut, I can live with looking like crap for a few months if it means I can have a good body for next summer, which is all I'm aiming for currently.

 

[BlackCoat2k10]

So you're both doing pretty much the same thing - just eating slightly over 15 x lb bodyweight? And you're both seeing good gains?

My gains are quite astonishing to say the least, in strength and size.

Yeah I'm seeing gains, but i'm also getting some fat along with it, so this intended "Lean bulk" isn't very lean at all. So I've just decided to bulk up properly and then cut, I can live with looking like crap for a few months if it means I can have a good body for next summer, which is all I'm aiming for currently.

completely agreed, I've been a chubber for years so another couple of months wont do me any harm as it hasn't so far ! In the long run I'd rather have something there when I cut up.

Tip - If you think you're just stacking on a lot of fat when bulking, lower the calories a tad and just do some cardio every few days for a couple of weeks.

 

[pooley]

Yeah but if I cut - chances are i'll look terrible with no muscle mass, however if I bulk.. I'll look really fat due to the increase in fat from a bulk. If I lean bulk, gains will be so slow and as Freefaller has said, maybe.. 6lb a year? What is the best route?

best way to bulk up is to eat 'clean' good food but plenty of it. it takes longer to put weight on but it will be quality rather than quantity when you decide to cut. when it comes to bodybuilding slow and steady wins the race.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Thing is, if you look at what freefaller said, 2 stone with 2/3rd's fat, and water, leaves only 8/9 lbs of muscle, lean bulk 6lbs, then 2 things will happen when you go on a cut afterwards, firstly it will take time, in that time on a lean bulk without a cutting phase, you'd put on another couple of pounds, secondly as you cut you WILL lose some muscle, you can limit how much you lose.

But either way you'll end up about the same, maybe even slightly ahead with lean bulking, and none of the trouble of different phases of things, going through cutting phases, and no need to essentially get fat to get stronger before cutting.

Realistically, just eat healthily, everyones different so calculations won't set you up perfectly but give you a solid starting point, thats why on every forum and every health experts site they have different "formula's" for the perfect cutting, or bulking, or lean bulk amounts to eat, its all guesswork and individual to them. Pick any of them, try it, if you feel gains are too slow, add another 200 calories, if you feel you put on a bit more muscle, try a bit more, if you feel like its fat you're putting on, go back, if at the 15xlbs ratio you're putting on weight fast, cut it back.

Its all guesswork, theres no need to eat 5000 calories a day(for most people) just to be sure your body has enough fuel for every last microgram of muscle growth, and theres really no need to be so anal and precise that you never gain an ounce of fat while trying to gain muscle, somewhere inbetween is fine though closer to the leanbulking end of that scale is easier.

 

[BlackCoat2k10]

Thing is, if you look at what freefaller said... - please read what he said as its amazing advice -

either way you'll end up about the same, maybe even slightly ahead with lean bulking, and none of the trouble of different phases of things, going through cutting phases, and no need to essentially get fat to get stronger before cutting.

I agree to an extent with this, however in the case that if you are already chubby and want to cut but are afraid that you will look like a weakling then why not bulk for a bit then cut? You are going to cut in the end any way, a decent bulk (not going stupidly with the calories but a fair few) will help when it comes to a cut and fat loss stage so atleast you have something to show for your work rather than just a skinnier self.

However if you are already at a level of low body fat percentage then best bet is a Lean bulk if you can do it!

 

[Freefaller]

Don't worry, DM always counter acts everything I say. I'm used to it