Auto is great if you’re looking for something like a 5 series. Not so much for the typical first car from the last 10 year has very much been built to a budget.
Learner driver - any point in manual?
- Thread starter Hodders
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Auto is great if you’re looking for something like a 5 series. Not so much for the typical first car from the last 10 year has very much been built to a budget.
I find a lot of people are horrified by auto like manual is in some way "proper" driving - though there can be some advantages manual is/was working around technology limitations/inefficiencies and not an intrinsic thing and TBH with a decent modern auto implementation most/all of the advantages of manual can be replicated if you want to go to the effort.
In many thousands of miles of driving I've only had 2 instances where an auto transmission has got it wrong - one of those was a complicated and unlikely set of circumstances, the other seems to be related to a turbo boost leak issue (I've got it wrong more often than that driving manual).
I actually don't understand the confusing clutch and brake the pedals though - usually aren't even close to matching up position wise - I've never once gone for the clutch and got the brake instead - though I've the odd instance of instincts kicking in and reaching for and trying to move the shifter like a gear lever and finding carpet with my left foot LOL which has sometimes resulted in me changing in or out of D+/sports mode inadvertently LOL. There was a girl at work though who had to move one of the work vans (auto) who'd never driven anything but manual and spent the first 5 minutes moving about 2 feet then jerking to a stop as she hit the brake trying to change gear before she could override the habits but again I don't really understand it unless people are habitually finding a pedal to rest their foot on even if it is fairly far right.
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Soldato
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I think people who press the brake thinking it's the clutch shouldn't be driving imo
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Associate
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I think people who press the brake thinking it's the clutch shouldn't be driving imo
I’ve only done this is a couple of times - I’m constantly switching between auto and manual gearboxes but it’s a nice reminder of how effective your brakes can actually be
My daughter didn't really question it, she wanted a beetle cab as a first car and they where almost exclusively manual.. I gave her a quick lesson in an empty carpark during COVID in my M3 Convertible and she got the hang of it in no time so seemed the sensible thing to do.
But it's a reminder that the vast majority of good VFM first cars are manual, and you never know when you might drive a manual, hire cars, pool cars etc..
In fact she's on about changing her car now and I am trying to persuade her to go auto since she commutes a fair bit.. I let her have a go in the EV (ID.3) and she loved it, had no idea how it helps in slow traffic but already finding it £1.5k extra compared to a manual for the same spec/mileage.
Exactly that. Baffled why so many "experienced" posters missed it. It's muscle memory from years of driving manuals.
I enjoy a good manual on a decent back road more than an auto. In heavy traffic through an auto is much easier.
Had a hire car last week all they had left were manuals. Think that's the first time that's happened. Previously they ran out of manuals and only had autos.
I think anyone learning today probably doesn't need to worry about manuals unless it's something they want to learn.
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There may be some cars it is different but anything I've driven it is still positioned well away from the normal clutch position though.
The couple of times muscle memory kicked in I found carpet not the brake pedal LOL... I wonder if it is more down to people having lazy habits.
The only time instincts/muscle memory kick in really though is a decent back road and driving a little more spiritedly.
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Soldato
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I learned manual, always very confident with speed/gear/rev selection and the associated benefits like engine braking and having power available in an emergency. But I did struggle with the physical interface of a clutch. Just always seemed to find it a little unpredictable, so I guess some kind of dexterity thing. Not a problem with my hands on the wheel or gears though.
Then my first car was a Smart so no clutch, but still had to select gears and shift up etc. I really liked that to be honest, no clutch to wear my knee out in city driving, but still in control of the gearbox.
After 9 years I moved onto a traditional auto (2003 Yaris) and find it quite slushy and loose. But I have learned the various tricks I can use to force it into whichever gear I want e.g. turning the overdrive gear off drops me down to 3rd for a little extra grunt on a motorway overtake.
I think the manual knowledge is invaluable as a car operator for safety and fuel economy. But the clutch itself is pointless. In my next car I'd love to try out a proper DCT. The Smart used to spend a little while thinking in-between gears and that was annoying.
tl;dr Passed manual test, drove auto for 10 years, still glad I learned manual
Then my first car was a Smart so no clutch, but still had to select gears and shift up etc. I really liked that to be honest, no clutch to wear my knee out in city driving, but still in control of the gearbox.
After 9 years I moved onto a traditional auto (2003 Yaris) and find it quite slushy and loose. But I have learned the various tricks I can use to force it into whichever gear I want e.g. turning the overdrive gear off drops me down to 3rd for a little extra grunt on a motorway overtake.
I think the manual knowledge is invaluable as a car operator for safety and fuel economy. But the clutch itself is pointless. In my next car I'd love to try out a proper DCT. The Smart used to spend a little while thinking in-between gears and that was annoying.
I really don't get the left foot brake thing. The day I colected the Smart I found my left foot pressed itself into the carpet a lot, but never hit the brake pedal or lifted the foot to find one. Since then I usually let it hang out wide to the left or tuck it behind my right leg for comfort.
tl;dr Passed manual test, drove auto for 10 years, still glad I learned manual
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could ask what the ideal transmission would be ? for ICE is it a reliable/efficient/quiet, as yet uninvented, CVT , so that torque curve is like an ev;
would also need to achieve controllable/precise engine braking, never driven a real world cvt to see how that pans out, even for ev's regenerative braking feel seems an issue (eg taycan which prefers precision of brakes, tesla removing regen levels because of risk of breaking traction)
The few times i've been a passenger in a car the first time someone tries driving an auto, it's seemed to me the issue is that a lot of people think they're still supposed to be using both feet and so decide to go one foot per pedal, with predictably funny results the first time they try to brake.
Dunno but I guess a perfected CVT would be. The problem really with CVT is finding a happy medium between efficiency and response - if you stick a CVT in sports mode it'll actually respond pretty well - but drinks fuel that way due to holding higher revs.
Of all the auto transmissions I've experience of I think my favourite is still the older torque converter based one used in my truck and various Nissan/Infiniti cars like the 370Z - while not without its flaws out of anything it feels the most like it is working with me - especially when it comes to the use of engine braking.
You make it sound like, your muscles have a very short memory, and/or you rarely drive spiritedly.
That's what happens usually. Folding the left leg back helps.
When I took my first automatic Smart for a test drive having never driven an auto before I put my left foot on the brake, my brother was with me and said just use your right foot for both pedals. That happened within the first minute of driving it and I never had a problem with it again.
Soldato
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I get it a lot in the auto vehicles we have at work.
A combination of wide brake pedals, large feet and clompy work boots. Usually you just catch the edge of the pedal with the corner of the boot tread, but it's enough to slam the brakes on.
Associate
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Learned in a manual, last two cars I have picked automatic. Best of both worlds. When hiring a cheap van it was manual only. Quite a few instances it would be beneficial. If I was starting again it would be manual 100%.
Should say the first time I drove my automatic home I left footed the brake pedal by muscle memory and let's say that's not happened again, was quite an experience
Should say the first time I drove my automatic home I left footed the brake pedal by muscle memory and let's say that's not happened again, was quite an experience
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Soldato
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I've heard this so many times every teenage learner asks the same question it seems. Manual because it covers all bases and auto only limits you and they're more expensive to buy or they used to be. Theres also a seriously smaller pool to choose from and for a first car thats a problem
If you ask me its because they're silent and the other driver hasn't heard them normally you'd hear a roar as someone puts their foot down, and as for pulling away from parked unless you're watching them you don't notice at all
Whatever the Ferrari's use transmission is automatic but gear shift via paddle is manual! That seems like the best of both to me. i.e. no clutch. All the automatics I've driven were either slushy or kickdown (is that still a thing?) was late or delayed resulting in a heart stopping moment when you want to overtake but nothing happens (until it kicks you in the back when it finally kicks in)
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Caporegime
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A lot of people are failing to see that learning in a manual has nothing to do with what is better to drive. Learning to drive a manual is teaching you how to multitask whilst driving a lot better than you would with an auto. It is subconsciously teaching you to plan ahead and making sure you are in the right gear coming up to a junction for example or being in the right gear to put it into the power band for an overtake. This carries on to your judgement planning ahead of the road what you are going to do.
Hence why if you struggle to use a manual correctly then you struggle to do the fundamentals of driving a car safe and well. Judging at roundabouts when it is safe to go, spotting people coming out of the slip road and moving into the next lane, or even judging slow moving traffic ahead and moving into the next lane Etc.
Hence why if you struggle to use a manual correctly then you struggle to do the fundamentals of driving a car safe and well. Judging at roundabouts when it is safe to go, spotting people coming out of the slip road and moving into the next lane, or even judging slow moving traffic ahead and moving into the next lane Etc.
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Soldato
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maybe, I got all that from biking everywhere as a teenager