LED TVs

[Flukester]

Hi all

After looking this weekend at various TVs to look at picture quality me and missus decided that the new LED TVs were pretty amazing, almost rivaling plasma in contrast / blacks depth and colour.

I'm a real TV noob, but seemed the way to go.

After seeing a Samsung 40" LED backlit model in the flesh (but out of my budget) I've just forked out on a Sharp Aquos LC-40LE600E. Apparently cheapest on market but gets good reviews.

Downside is at £624 ex vat I guess it's almost double a normal LCD of similar size in cost... and also for a little more could have got a 1080p 50" Plasma

After looking at the 50" Plasma it's just too big for my little lounge...

Have I made a bad choice ?, I realize that multi LED backlit TFT is just a stop gap to OLED, but I think they have closed the gap with plasma and give really nice picture.

 

[Kelt]

Hi all

After looking this weekend at various TVs to look at picture quality me and missus decided that the new LED TVs were pretty amazing, almost rivaling plasma in contrast / blacks depth and colour.

I'm a real TV noob, but seemed the way to go.

After seeing a Samsung 40" LED backlit model in the flesh (but out of my budget) I've just forked out on a Sharp Aquos LC-40LE600E. Apparently cheapest on market but gets good reviews.

Downside is at £624 ex vat I guess it's almost double a normal LCD of similar size in cost... and also for a little more could have got a 1080p 50" Plasma

After looking at the 50" Plasma it's just too big for my little lounge...

Have I made a bad choice ?, I realize that multi LED backlit TFT is just a stop gap to OLED, but I think they have closed the gap with plasma and give really nice picture.

*Make that a few quid less, my Samsung 50" 1080P cost me £609 all in (after Quidco).

"Can't speak for you, but for me, yes, it would have been a bad choice. Trust me, once you get the TV in your lounge, whatever size they are, you get used to it quickly.

 

[Corasik]

Technically there is no such thing as an LED TV at the moment, they are only LED backlit LCD TV's, and its not on a pixel by pixel basis, its simply an array of LEDs at the edge of the panel replacing the cold cathodes. (Im sure I read somewhere that trading standards wants LED tv's renamed LED Backlit LCD TV, or something similar)

Black levels are no better than any other LCD TV with dynamic backlighting, and dynamic backlighting isnt very good if you like high contrast movies (like space movies, where you might need deep blacks, and the brightest whites (starships/stars etc) at the same time, so dynamic either fails on the black, or the white.

Plasma still has the highest non dynamic contrast, and will remain the clear leader until a TV maker makes a TV with 1 white LED PER PIXEL!!, thats 2 million LED's in addition to over 6 million LCD cells, thats a lot of potential for manufacturing defects.

Now panasonic have unofficially got Pioneers black tech, they should hopefully be able to combine it with their own phosphors (which are quite hard to burn), and the power usage of their 2009 PDP models, and give us a sickly good quality plasma TV, with decent power usage, and panasonic's typical good value pricing.

BTW, no matter how big your TV is, in 6 months you will be used to it, and decide "there was space for the bigger model" anyway. So dont worry about that, just enjoy it.

 

[kingy666]

If the 50" plasma is to big then you could have got one in 46" or 42" and saved a few quid and have a better quality picture. I have seen a few LED tv's now and to me they just look overly bright and a harsher picture compared to my panasonic 50PZ80 plasma. It may, of course, just be the way shops set up these LED tv's.

 

[james.miller]

Plasma still has the highest non dynamic contrast, and will remain the clear leader until a TV maker makes a TV with 1 white LED PER PIXEL!!, thats 2 million LED's in addition to over 6 million LCD cells, thats a lot of potential for manufacturing defects.

its not as if its a tough feat - apple and dell are producing RGB backlit displays for notebooks and monitors. if anything, it should be eaier to produce a large panel using larger leds.

 

[Corasik]

Pretty sure that the Dell and Apple panels are still based on white LED's mounted around the panel border, not 1 led per pixel, or sub pixels.

Using LED's as the pixels themselves would start to bring in some of the problems plasma's have with blacks, minimum drive levels to get the LED making light at all.

But hey, if you have a link to a pure LED panel, feel free to post., would quiet enjoy reading it. The Apple LED Cinema Display (24inch panel) is just another "standard" LED backlit LCD panel. It cannot indivitually control the backlight level down to a single pixel level.

 

[Flukester]

Technically there is no such thing as an LED TV at the moment, they are only LED backlit LCD TV's, and its not on a pixel by pixel basis, its simply an array of LEDs at the edge of the panel replacing the cold cathodes. (Im sure I read somewhere that trading standards wants LED tv's renamed LED Backlit LCD TV, or something similar)

That is the case for some LED backlit TVs... but this one and has a large array all over the back of the LCD. The brightness of the huge array of LEDs can be varied giving amazing black / light levels.

Some cheap 'LED TVs' simply replace the cold cathode tubes with LEDs...

I know technically there is no such thing, but the term like you say just refers to the backlighting...

 

[Flukester]

If the 50" plasma is to big then you could have got one in 46" or 42" and saved a few quid and have a better quality picture. I have seen a few LED tv's now and to me they just look overly bright and a harsher picture compared to my panasonic 50PZ80 plasma. It may, of course, just be the way shops set up these LED tv's.

Could be the setup.... I do like the look of 50" plasma, I think something in my head was just saying 'dont buy into this tech as it's on the way out', though I admit thats some years down the line.

I guess all tech is on the way out if you look at it that way........

Role on OLED

 

[james.miller]

Pretty sure that the Dell and Apple panels are still based on white LED's mounted around the panel border, not 1 led per pixel, or sub pixels.

No, they're not. they are RGB backlit like the hp LP2480zx is (or the lacie 700 series), although that is a very expensive panel.

But hey, if you have a link to a pure LED panel, feel free to post., would quiet enjoy reading it. The Apple LED Cinema Display (24inch panel) is just another "standard" LED backlit LCD panel. It cannot indivitually control the backlight level down to a single pixel level.

see above and anyway, i wasnt talking about the 24" panel. i was talking about the 27" produced by lg (the company i couldnt remember). Dell also sell laptops with rgb-led backlit screens such as the xps16.

 

[jaybee]

I'm really happy with my Toshiba 46" LCD to be honest, and probably will be for a while. It's the one of the best TVs I have watched.

 

[-Ad-]

That is the case for some LED backlit TVs... but this one and has a large array all over the back of the LCD. The brightness of the huge array of LEDs can be varied giving amazing black / light levels.

Some cheap 'LED TVs' simply replace the cold cathode tubes with LEDs...

I know technically there is no such thing, but the term like you say just refers to the backlighting...

Well there are per pixel lit LED backlit setsso you might have seen one with the bundles behind. I thought that all the latest models were edge lit anyway to satisfy the thin whores, and tbh neither tickle my fancy in the slightest unless the money in my pocket needed to be thrown away for being too heavy.

Also what you saw would have been far from a realist picture and you have just been taken in by the 'OMG BRIGHT SHARP 1080P MAN'.

Wait for the new panasonic plasmas that will be out soon and see if they really are as good as we hope they will be with the inclusion of Kuro tech.

I'm really happy with my Toshiba 46" LCD to be honest, and probably will be for a while. It's the one of the best TVs I have watched.

You should see someother tvs then, there ae plenty of far better ones out there. Still, enjoy your set.

 

[Flukester]

Well there are per pixel lit LED backlit setsso you might have seen one with the bundles behind. I thought that all the latest models were edge lit anyway to satisfy the thin whores, and tbh neither tickle my fancy in the slightest unless the money in my pocket needed to be thrown away for being too heavy.

Also what you saw would have been far from a realist picture and you have just been taken in by the 'OMG BRIGHT SHARP 1080P MAN'.

Wait for the new panasonic plasmas that will be out soon and see if they really are as good as we hope they will be with the inclusion of Kuro tech.

As far as I know there is no such thing as 'per pixel lit LCD', maybe your thinking of OLED, but that is not LCD and the screen pixels themselves produce the light. (it would be physically impossible to per pixel light a LCD using current LED tech, it aint small enough)

Some very expensive sets so I've been told use RGB backlighting arrays, crazy expensive though.

Not sure I have been 'taken in', but the LED Array backlit LCDs seemed to look pretty nice, and appeared much nicer than normal LCD... not that you can judge all signal sources, just the blueray that was playing on them, doubt any were calibrated . The black levels seemed way in advance though and much closer to plasma

At end of the day I guess you just buy what you like or what reviewers say is good... I kinda wish I'd got the 100hz 46" model though

I have nothing against plasma, apart from the niggle in my head saying it's old tech... though LCD is also old tech


Just out of interest, what benefit does 100Hz electronics have over say 50Hz, when you consider the frame rate of source is much lower and the LCD panel is most likely identical.... I'm guessing smearing / blurring of high speed action is lessened, though not sure how..

 

[-Ad-]

Must have been rushing when I posted that and made it a mess.

You're right that there are no per pixel LED sets, the only LED backlit ones are in the bundles but most are now edge lit. Saw the 11inch OLED at Sony HEadquarters at the end of last year and it did looks freaking gorgeous!¬!!!!!1112121 213!313131

Forget about plasma being this apparent old tech, how can it be old tech when the best plasmas are still leaps and bounds ahead of the nearest fancy LCD

Also ignore all this talk about 50 hz this, 200hz motionflow that, most of these fancy picture processing things will actually make the picture look worse, and in the case of these motion processing / Intelligent frame creation, will actually make the picture very weird. You are right in saying they are there to try and make teh picture smoother, but as I have mentioned in the previous sentence all they do is make it worse.

Also remember that LCDs have terrible viewing angles, and this is something that has not been cured at all. Once you move off centre the picture will change dramatically and will start to wash out. Not ideal in any way unless you are a loner

WAIT for the new panasonics!

 

[james.miller]

Also remember that LCDs have terrible viewing angles, and this is something that has not been cured at all. Once you move off centre the picture will change dramatically and will start to wash out. Not ideal in any way unless you are a loner

WAIT for the new panasonics!

cheaper lcd's do. ips panels dont really suffer from it, just like panasonics and pioneers dont really suffer from screenburn.

 

[-Ad-]

cheaper lcd's do. ips panels dont really suffer from it, just like panasonics and pioneers dont really suffer from screenburn.

Never seen a screen that doesn't suffer from it. I don't know what models use what panels, but I always see it and hate it. But then again I am used to the picture of my Pio so am a bit of a picky sod

 

[james.miller]

Never seen a screen that doesn't suffer from it. I don't know what models use what panels, but I always see it and hate it. But then again I am used to the picture of my Pio so am a bit of a picky sod

yeah, you must often sit perpendicular to the tv for these things to be an issue..lol

 

[-Ad-]

Eh?

 

[Corasik]

No, they're not. they are RGB backlit like the hp LP2480zx is (or the lacie 700 series), although that is a very expensive panel.

RGB backlight doesnt mean that every pixel has its own personal trio of LED's. It simply means that instead of using white LED's in the backlight (white LED's are flawed as they are blue with a white phosphor, and dont have a natural white/colour temperature)... but instead have a clusters of red, green and blue LEDs behind a defuser to give an even and natural white backlight over the entire LCD panel.

They are not even close to being 1 cluster of LED's per pixel. Thus for a TV, especially for movies which have subtle and dark scenes the Plasma still kicks them in the .......

Cant wait to see what Panasonic do with Kuro's tech.... I hope they are able to combine the best of both the last generation Viera panels (high resolution, low power requirement, very thin!, and fairly resistant to screen burn) with the black depth of Kuro.

 

[Flukester]

AFAIK White LEDs have a blueish tint as they use UV light to illuminate a yellow UV reactive plastic.... RGB LEDs are a dam expensive way to create white light.

I'm guessing the latest LED panels (non edge lit) have 100s of LEDs, but how many I don't know.

The cost of them is huge though, almost 3 times that of a similar sized plasma in many cases.. I'm not sure I understand why they exist when in many respects they are inferior

 

[Gamefreak501]

Sorry for the thread hijack.

After playing some Wii with friends yesterday, I realised how much of a let down my Sonix LCD TV is - it's 26" and although I got it free, it has dancing pixels all over it, like blue/green/black coloured halos and hazes that come up and gradually get worse before going away and coming back again.

In any case, I have been looking at the Samsung LED-lit televisions and I do really like them.

The 32" model retails for £6-700 or something which isn't bad, but I'm wondering if I'll get let down by the size.

I understand Samsung are offering £100-£200 cashback on the 40" and 46" panels - but these go for way over £1000.

My real question is - do you think I'll appreciate the 40" or 46" models better? I don't have any HD gear however...so very much a 'future-proof' purchase I suppose.

Any advice appreciated,

David