Legality of scanning then 3d printing.

[Angilion]

Considering a £300 console (e.g. PS3) is generally sold at a loss, do you really think an end user without advanced manufacturing processes is going to be able to make one for 1/10th the cost?

Considering that you're comparing completely incomparable costs, do you really think that your point is valid?

There are considerable costs involved in selling a console today that would not apply to a console printed at home from pirated plans:

Buying hardware from other companies, which will include all of their costs and their profit.

Buying manufacturing from other companies, which will include all of their costs and their profit.

Buying packaging and transportation of the relatively heavy and bulky finished product from other companies, which will include all of their costs and their profit.

Customer support costs.

Profit for the end retailer, unless they also take a loss and make it up on game sales.


So you're comparing a completely different manufacturing process without any of those costs. It's not a valid comparison. With a printed item using free plans, the only cost is the materials and the electricity. While it's nowhere near possible to print a console for 10% of the retail cost today, it's not inconceivable that it could become so at some point in the foreseeable future.

 

[Totality]

One thing that should be considered (from a bigger view) is that if eventually people will be able to produce guns at home, more time & energy should be invested in turning the population into one which is mentally capable of living with them (IE, compare the cultural differences to gun liberal Norway/Sweden & the USA).

If weapons will eventually be easily available then as a society we will have to take a deep hard & honest look at the causes of most violent behaviour, if prohibition becomes practically impossible alternative methods will have to be honestly explored (eg, better mental health care for the population, early diagnosis for dangerous conditions, reduction in slums/gross poverty) - basically aim at solving social problems which result in criminality.

Ahahhaa. And there was me thinking that 3D printers didn't work at the sub atomic level that can produce chemicals. What sort of printer have you seen? Yes it can print plastic bits for guns, but no it can't make rifled barrels, bullet casings, lead bullets, gun powder, primers and everything else that actually makes a gun.

Not sure if you were trolling, but if not I feel sorry for how misinformed society is. A plastic receiver that holds all the above does NOT make a gun. Daily Mail much?

 

[Angilion]

Ahahhaa. And there was me thinking that 3D printers didn't work at the sub atomic level that can produce chemicals. What sort of printer have you seen? Yes it can print plastic bits for guns, but no it can't make rifled barrels, bullet casings, lead bullets, gun powder, primers and everything else that actually makes a gun.

Not sure if you were trolling, but if not I feel sorry for how misinformed society is. A plastic receiver that holds all the above does NOT make a gun. Daily Mail much?

It's not just plastic. It's possible to do 3D metal printing now, but the cost is a lot higher.

They did say "eventually". Eventually it will almost certainly be possible to print all of the components of a functioning gun. Without anything to fire out of it. So it's an inefficient club.

There's a legal issue in the USA, apparently. I've read that bits other than the receiver can be bought with little control over sales, so 3D printing could undermine gun control laws.

 

[Totality]

Yeah in the states it is the receiver which is the controlled part and that has the serial number, you can buy the barrel, etc online but then again you can just go and buy a full on assault rifle so there isnt any need to print stuff off in the states! Just means they have to control the barrels too. In the UK it is nothing to even slightly worry about!

 

[Haggisman]

Considering that you're comparing completely incomparable costs, do you really think that your point is valid?

Yes.

So you're comparing a completely different manufacturing process without any of those costs. It's not a valid comparison. With a printed item using free plans, the only cost is the materials and the electricity. While it's nowhere near possible to print a console for 10% of the retail cost today, it's not inconceivable that it could become so at some point in the foreseeable future.

Except that by the time printers that can generate complex enough items for e.g. a PS3 are freely available, console tech will have moved on dramatically. So yes, in 10 years you could maybe build one for £10, but then you could probably buy one second hand for the same!

 

[Angilion]

Yes.

Why?

Except that by the time printers that can generate complex enough items for e.g. a PS3 are freely available, console tech will have moved on dramatically. So yes, in 10 years you could maybe build one for £10, but then you could probably buy one second hand for the same!

Console tech won't have moved on to a radically new technology that couldn't be printed the same way. It will still be electronic components and circuits on chips and circuit boards, with plastic casing. So you could print a PS4, PS5 or whatever would be current at that time, just as easily as a PS3.

 

[Haggisman]

Why?

Well, other than the fact that finite resources means materials are only going to get more expensive, do you really think there's going to be a single machine that can print every single component?

You're going to need one for your plastics, one for your metals, one for your circuit boards, one for your chips. Some kind of optic polishing machine for your laser lens, motor winding machine for your drive motor.

So that's 4 printers (3 if you concede that the plastics/metals could potentially be done by the same one). Plus another machine to do your optics and another for your motors.

How much do you think those machines are going to cost each?

Console tech won't have moved on to a radically new technology that couldn't be printed the same way. It will still be electronic components and circuits on chips and circuit boards, with plastic casing. So you could print a PS4, PS5 or whatever would be current at that time, just as easily as a PS3.

in 10 years you're looking at a 5nm process for chips. Even if it were within consumer budget to get hold of a machine capable of producing these chips, you'd need to have it in an environmentally stabilised cleanroom. Also, what happens if a bus drives past as you're printing?

That's of course assuming we are still using the same type of technology.

 

[aardvark]

Why?



Console tech won't have moved on to a radically new technology that couldn't be printed the same way. It will still be electronic components and circuits on chips and circuit boards, with plastic casing. So you could print a PS4, PS5 or whatever would be current at that time, just as easily as a PS3.

you are assuming that 3d printing will reach a level of technology that i don't think is even theoretically possible.

 

[Orionaut]

you are assuming that 3d printing will reach a level of technology that i don't think is even theoretically possible.

Its certainly theoretically possible (IBM developed a machine some years ago that could pick up and place individual atoms!)

Whether it would ever be likely to become a practical general manufacturing technology is a different matter, though it may well be eventually used to make compact electronics/chips (And possibly sooner than one might expect)

 

[aardvark]

Its certainly theoretically possible (IBM developed a machine some years ago that could pick up and place individual atoms!)

Whether it would ever be likely to become a practical general manufacturing technology is a different matter, though it may well be eventually used to make compact electronics/chips (And possibly sooner than one might expect)

there are macroscopic properties that you simply cannot impart by laying layer upon layer. And while the atom moving was impressive you can't make molecules that way, it doesn't work that way, and moving single atoms would mean thousands of years to actually do anything large no matter how fast you made it.

dont get me wrong, i like 3d printers and they will get better and better but people need to get a bit of perspective as to whats possible and whats not.

 

[Sin_Chase]

You might see physical product sales change dramatically if 3D printing develops well.

Imagine buying a new computer mouse online. You get the blueprint to print all the parts you can and all the electronics and other bits get sent to you. You get to 3D print the parts exactly how you want, colour etc and assemble the product yourself - Ultimately the build quality will be down to you.

A part breaks you can print? Print it and fix it. You want to change the design a little? Change it.

I don't think 3D printing will ever make 'buying' obsolete. There are some thing that you just cannot print and have to buy, at least....in the immediate future, for a while anyway

 

[Angilion]

Well, other than the fact that finite resources means materials are only going to get more expensive, do you really think there's going to be a single machine that can print every single component?

You're going to need one for your plastics, one for your metals, one for your circuit boards, one for your chips. Some kind of optic polishing machine for your laser lens, motor winding machine for your drive motor.

So that's 4 printers (3 if you concede that the plastics/metals could potentially be done by the same one). Plus another machine to do your optics and another for your motors.

How much do you think those machines are going to cost each?

Well, the machine that prints the "chips" also prints the circuitry and you wouldn't necessarily be making an optical drive as well, but you make a good point about the overall cost.

in 10 years you're looking at a 5nm process for chips. Even if it were within consumer budget to get hold of a machine capable of producing these chips, you'd need to have it in an environmentally stabilised cleanroom. Also, what happens if a bus drives past as you're printing?

That's of course assuming we are still using the same type of technology.

They wouldn't be chips per se and they're produced by an inkjet printer (although it's quite some way from an off the shelf mass market model), but again you make a good point. It's not as sensitive as current chip fabrication, but it's not something that's going to work in an ordinary room.

 

[Angilion]

you are assuming that 3d printing will reach a level of technology that i don't think is even theoretically possible.

It's theoretically possible. Researchers at Cambridge have successfully printed circuits with the same size and performance as those on a current silicon chip, and that's the initial experiments. It's plausible that they will be able to refine the process to a smaller scale, to match future developments in chip fabrication. The level of 3D printing I referred to is definitely theoretically possible, if you have a console without a hard drive or an optical drive.