Lexus GS

Firestar_3x · 8 Jan 2007 at 08:03

I don't understand why some people find it so hard to compute that a rwd car is the hardest format to drive and your chances of stacking it are far higher than some fwd shopping trolly.

You usually find the people who moan on the most or don't understand haven't passed yet / have been driving for under a year or have never driven anything other than a 1.2 corsa.

Coming from both sides of the coin in any RWD car you have loads more scope for mistake, you are more likely to be caught with your pants down, its really that simple, anyone who says otherwise is simply hard of learning imho......

jamoor · 8 Jan 2007 at 08:20

Firestar_3x said:
I don't understand why some people find it so hard to compute that a rwd car is the hardest format to drive and your chances of stacking it are far higher than some fwd shopping trolly.

You usually find the people who moan on the most or don't understand haven't passed yet / have been driving for under a year or have never driven anything other than a 1.2 corsa.

Coming from both sides of the coin in any RWD car you have loads more scope for mistake, you are more likely to be caught with your pants down, its really that simple, anyone who says otherwise is simply hard of learning imho......

I know how different it is, after all I drive a powerful RWD car, but I also understand entirely that driving like a loony WILL get you in trouble, driving normally however will not cause any problems at all imo.

PMKeates · 8 Jan 2007 at 08:23

Firestar_3x said:
Coming from both sides of the coin in any RWD car you have loads more scope for mistake, you are more likely to be caught with your pants down, its really that simple, anyone who says otherwise is simply hard of learning imho......

I do believe there is an aspect of what particular car involved in it as well. I'm certain now that If I had got an MR2, I'd have crashed it (So thanks to those that advised me against it). Whereas with the BMW, and it's array of aids, even the most ham fisted driving is managed. It's as close to arcade as I can possibly imagine.

Trojan · 8 Jan 2007 at 08:37

paradigm said:
84BHP/litre, skilled.

Meh, that's not too bad. A 330Ci isn't considered a slouch, yet it only has 77bhp/litre.

Firestar_3x · 8 Jan 2007 at 08:41

jamoor said:
driving normally however will not cause any problems at all imo.

That all depends on the situation, you could driving along quite normally, hit a patch of spilt fuel / ice / leaves.

In a fwd car the front wheels might spin, understear a bit.

In a rwd car as the back end hits, wheels will spin and its much more likely to swap ends.

Heck if i'm pulling away from a junction and i'm a little sloppy on my change to 2nd i can get the back end to step out and wiggle side to side on a straight road, in a fwd car all would happen in the wheels would spin and the front might pull slightly to one side, the rwd car has much more scope to spin you round and spit you out across the other side of the road.

PMKeates · 8 Jan 2007 at 08:42

Trojan said:
Meh, that's not too bad. A 330Ci isn't considered a slouch, yet it only has 77bhp/litre.

After a quick check I find the FX45 to be 76hp/litre anyway :\

Mickey_D · 8 Jan 2007 at 08:44

[TW]Fox said:
What happens if you inadverently apply too much throttle on a wet roundabout in a Daihatsu Mira, and what happens if you do the same in a 300bhp RWD saloon?

In the Daihatsu you understeer and go head first into the kerb. In the RWD saloon you swap ends and go arse end into the kerb.

Mickey_D · 8 Jan 2007 at 08:50

Firestar_3x said:
I don't understand why some people find it so hard to compute that a rwd car is the hardest format to drive and your chances of stacking it are far higher than some fwd shopping trolly.

You usually find the people who moan on the most or don't understand haven't passed yet / have been driving for under a year or have never driven anything other than a 1.2 corsa.

Coming from both sides of the coin in any RWD car you have loads more scope for mistake, you are more likely to be caught with your pants down, its really that simple, anyone who says otherwise is simply hard of learning imho......

I have already typed up a huge reply to this, but I knew it would fall on deaf ears, so I'll just say that I (nor any of the people I listed in my last post) fall into either category you list.

There will ALWAYS be a rather large dispute about FWD vs RWD. All I can say is from personal experience which I would rather drive. And I still say if you want your power pulling you down the road, may I suggest a horse drawn carriage?

paradigm · 8 Jan 2007 at 09:06

Mickey_D said:
There will ALWAYS be a rather large dispute about FWD vs RWD. All I can say is from personal experience which I would rather drive. And I still say if you want your power pulling you down the road, may I suggest a horse drawn carriage?

And all I'll say is if you want safe fun being PUSHED down a road, wait for lots of snow and get a sled.

Back to your argument about the Mira and the RWD barge on a roundabout, the Mira wouldn't actually have the power to understeer

Regardless of what you say, a low powered FWD hatch will always be a safer first car than something high powered and RWD.

Regardless of how safe a driver thinks s/he can be in a car, and even if s/he is the most careful new driver in the world, the actual scope for making a complete hash of it is far more likely in the RWD car, without a doubt. Even a slight mistake with RWD power can cause drastic effects, an FWD is easier to correct 9/10.

Mickey_D · 8 Jan 2007 at 09:13

paradigm said:
84BHP/litre, skilled.

Oh, and just remembered this post. Don't forget that in an off road 4X4, you don't WANT extreme bhp, you want your torque at as low an RPM as possible, which means a slightly lacking bhp figure. But when you're developing FULL torque at 2,000RPM, who gives a **** what bhp rating it is?

Kind of like my truck. It's got a 5.0L V-8 that produces (I think) 210 bhp. But after going through all the gears and differentials etc, it's developing 11,000 ft/lb of torque at the wheel at 2,750RPM.

It's not always about bhp/litre. Sometimes it's about being able to use one of these:

to pull one of these:

up one of these:

In that circumstance there is no way in hell you want to have HUGE amounts of bhp. You want HUGE amounts of torque at as low an rpm as you can get!!

paradigm · 8 Jan 2007 at 09:16

OMG is that an American road that involves a) corners and b) hills? I'm genuinely shocked

Now all you need to do is make cars that steer and you'll all be onto a winner!

merlin · 8 Jan 2007 at 09:19

I think Mickey's point is that it all depends on the driver. Well, most of the time it does depend on the driver.

But sometimes things can be taken out of the drivers control - damp or greasy patch on the road, fuel spill, loose gravel, standing water, off camber corner/bend hell even a crisp packet or a rogue carrier bag.

FWD slides are easier to correct. Of course with RWD you can correct too, but there's always a nice fishtail option 20 yards down the road if you don't counter-steer, catch it, then unwind the lock you just put on, like ASAP.

Mickey_D · 8 Jan 2007 at 09:19

paradigm said:
OMG is that an American road that involves a) corners and b) hills? I'm genuinely shocked Now all you need to do is make cars that steer and you'll all be onto a winner!

Heh, go talk to Gibbo about cornering!!

Or anyone owning a Corvette. Or an SRT-4 Neon.

paradigm · 8 Jan 2007 at 09:22

Mickey_D said:
Heh, go talk to Gibbo about cornering!!

Or anyone owning a Corvette. Or an SRT-4 Neon.

Only the latest Corvette though, the previous ones didn't handle well at all (basing all judgement here on previous reviews, not actual experience).