LloydsTSB and HBOS in merger talks

joking aside, isn't it entirely possible that short selling has finally claimed a huge victim?

talking shares down becoming a self fulfilling prophecy?

I doubt the potentially gigantic losses the shorters will make will teach them any sort of lesson either. We're all just going to have to live in a knee jerk reaction for the next few years that means pretty much all credit is hard to come by until the markets forget and realise its a perfectly sensible and good thing for people to be selling risk to each other.. just not if it was all predicated on fraud which is what this is.

Sub prime sounds lovely and fluffy.. Its fraud!!! flat out plain and simple fraud.

If they can bang up the "natwest 3" for pocketing several million pounds then surely the dodgy mortgage brokers and toxic loan repackagers in the US (and here to some extent0 really need to be thrown in the can.

What's the latest bill?

Its got to be over a trillion dollars now with freddy, fanny, AIG, the rock, HBOS, Merrill etc etc etc all going pop and needing some level of bail out? If you add on the obligations of Lehmans that will remain unpaid you're probably talking well over $1tn.
 
JimpsEd said:
You're such a sensationalist when you post threads like this. You turn speculation into fact when posting it here (like with your thread about Lehman's filing for bankruptcy, when they hadn't).
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I wouldn't call that "sensationalist" or "speculation"; I'd call that a 100% perfect prediction on the basis of existing evidence.


Lehman Brothers, the fourth-largest US investment bank, has filed for bankruptcy protection, dealing a blow to the fragile global financial system. The news led to sharp falls in share prices around the world, and officials took measures to reassure markets
​

Beeb.
 
matt100 said:
joking aside, isn't it entirely possible that short selling has finally claimed a huge victim?

talking shares down becoming a self fulfilling prophecy?
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HBOS was doomed anyway, out of the main UK big banks it is the most vulnerable and things will be getting worse before they get better so putting them into safer hands seems a good idea.
 
Evangelion said:
I wouldn't call that "sensationalist" or "speculation"; I'd call that a 100% perfect prediction on the basis of existing evidence.


Lehman Brothers, the fourth-largest US investment bank, has filed for bankruptcy protection, dealing a blow to the fragile global financial system. The news led to sharp falls in share prices around the world, and officials took measures to reassure markets
​

Beeb.
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He posted it as fact, not a prediction.
 
The Halifax shouldn't be allowed to merge with Lloyds - simple as.

We have rules about not nationalising banks in trouble but the governement supported the 'rock. Then there are rules about monopolies. The government is going to break them, after breaking the 'golden' rule about national debt. Fact is, Halifax should be fire-sale time. There NEEDS to be a high profile and potentialluy damaging failure to shore the industry up, else there is no incentive, no reason for boards not to gamble on the future of the bank they run.
 
Jonny69 said:
Well this is interesting reading, I was just about to move a chunk of savings out the Halifax account. Can't afford to lose my money to a bank going down. If they are going to be foolish enough to get themselves in that position then I will punish them by withdrawing all my money :D
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I wouldnt worry, The government wont let HBOS fold. If they stepped in to save the relative minor player like Northern Rock, they wont let one of the largest financial institutions in the country (and world) collapse, the shockwave would throw the whole banking system into turmoil and severely damage the economy.

Your savings are safe, if you have shares you may stand to loose big tho
 
BENdage said:
I wouldnt worry, The government wont let HBOS fold. If they stepped in to save the relative minor player like Northern Rock, they wont let one of the largest financial institutions in the country (and world) collapse, the shockwave would throw the whole banking system into turmoil and severely damage the economy.

Your savings are safe, if you have shares you may stand to loose big tho
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mate its done, check my post above.. done deal, move on!
 
God I wish I'd had the guts to hang onto some HBOS stock overnight, would have made 50% profit on the rumored price (232p).

That said, Lloyd shares would be an interesting bet now, 232p/share is very low for what they're getting in HBOS so they might see a boost on the back of the acquisition, not tomorrow but in the medium term...
 
to be fair there's a lot to keep up with..

its lloyds tsb hbos now!

Thats probably a winning score in scrabble actually.
 
My uncle works for halifax and some of his colleges choose to take there bonuses in shares of hbos, some of them had about 50grands worth that are now worth very little.
 
Kitchster_uk said:
The Halifax shouldn't be allowed to merge with Lloyds - simple as.

We have rules about not nationalising banks in trouble but the governement supported the 'rock. Then there are rules about monopolies. The government is going to break them, after breaking the 'golden' rule about national debt. Fact is, Halifax should be fire-sale time. There NEEDS to be a high profile and potentialluy damaging failure to shore the industry up, else there is no incentive, no reason for boards not to gamble on the future of the bank they run.
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Actually thats completely wrong, this is one of the best market orientated responses to the credit crunch there's been. When times get tough weak companies get swallowed by the strong ones, it's exactly what should happen. There's no proof at all the monopolies commission would block the deal (it certainly wouldn't if the consequences of doing so was one of the companies going bankrupt - that would be stupid beyond belief).

Given there was a buyer, the government hadn't loaned any money to HBOS and therefore has no influence in the deal there's no good reason for a fire sale (and plenty against).

It's unlucky for HBOS, they were financially still in reasonable shape and Lloyds seem to have got themselves an absolute bargain at the price.

Anyway, it's the market doing what it does, it's a good deal and nice to see it going through without government help.
 
Nice to see a profit for once. It's been an unusual sight for me over the past few months :p

That'll neutralise my M&S losses anyway. Here's hoping Lloyds go on the up too!
 
Has anyone seen the US markets today?

DJ: 10609.66 down-449.36 -4.06%

There is speculation that the US treasury have no funds left to bail out anyone else and that Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs may need to go elsewhere to gain funds :eek::

Analysts including David Trone at Fox-Pitt Kelton Cochran Caronia Waller have said the demise of Lehman and Merrill may force Goldman and Morgan Stanley to pursue a sale or some sort of transaction with a bank, to gain a stable funding base of deposits and the confidence of the markets. The firms hold more than $20 of assets for every $1 in capital, making them dependent on lenders.

``From what Goldman said on their conference call, they said they're going to go it alone,'' Smith said. ``But when you're leveraged it's not up to you, it's up to your trading counterparties.''
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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aaWAsCTFd3iM&refer=home

Wow, just how deep will this go?
 
bigredshark said:
Actually thats completely wrong, this is one of the best market orientated responses to the credit crunch there's been. When times get tough weak companies get swallowed by the strong ones, it's exactly what should happen. There's no proof at all the monopolies commission would block the deal (it certainly wouldn't if the consequences of doing so was one of the companies going bankrupt - that would be stupid beyond belief).

Given there was a buyer, the government hadn't loaned any money to HBOS and therefore has no influence in the deal there's no good reason for a fire sale (and plenty against).

It's unlucky for HBOS, they were financially still in reasonable shape and Lloyds seem to have got themselves an absolute bargain at the price.

Anyway, it's the market doing what it does, it's a good deal and nice to see it going through without government help.
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It is not healthy for one company to control 1/4 of the UK mortgage market. LLoyds TSB Halfax Bank of Scotland - 4 banks in one, plus the ancillary bits and bats soaked up along the way. Lloyds already have the most Current Accounts, even more now they are together. The worrying thing is, neither of the two strongest banks are even thinking about it (HSBC and Santander). It smacks of desperation by LTSB. HBoS should be broken up imho or in a few years it will be able to exert control over the entire mortgage market.
 
Kitchster_uk said:
It is not healthy for one company to control 1/4 of the UK mortgage market. LLoyds TSB Halfax Bank of Scotland - 4 banks in one, plus the ancillary bits and bats soaked up along the way. Lloyds already have the most Current Accounts, even more now they are together. The worrying thing is, neither of the two strongest banks are even thinking about it (HSBC and Santander). It smacks of desperation by LTSB. HBoS should be broken up imho or in a few years it will be able to exert control over the entire mortgage market.
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But blocking the merger and watching a major bank get destroyed is far worse right now. There would likely be a run on them if they didn't restore confidence tomorrow somehow, the government would have to step in and lend them billions, the market would get scared witless. There is no possible way that blocking the sale makes sense except in a nice theoretical world where it would be good to punish a bank, except then the government should have punished northern rock for their idiocy yesterday and not punish the relatively blameless HBOS today...

Yes, maybe it'll be a headache tomorrow, but setting the competition commission on them in 5 year (it exists for a reason after all) is far more logical than stopping a merger which could do a lot to stabilise the economy.
 
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