Loft Rebuild sanity check

[Marakith]

Hi there

I'm partway through a loft rebuild with a company over to do the work. We're talking ripping off the whole roof and rebuilding it to provide more headroom for an extension.

Broadly I'm really happy with the crew onsite. They seem to know what they're doing and are considerate builders. But I need to sanity check a couple of things.

Firstly, they are connecting the new timber to some of the original eaves (in the front of the house only - where the roof pitch isn't changing). In some cases leaving about a meter of the old joists. Is that normal? I was thinking for some reason they'd remove the eaves joists all the way down, but they say the existing joists are fine, that there's no difference in strength etc.

Secondly, the onsite builders weren't expecting to replace the soffits. I was pretty sure this was in the quote, and remember discussing it with the sales guy, but it turns out that soffits aren't mentioned in the contract. Is this normal? I'd expect the soffits to be replaced if the whole roof is being removed.

In the under-eave storage areas, they are planning to lay chipboard along the existing ceiling joists to offer more height within this storage area. They don't want to board up the inside of the eaves along the roof in the storage area because of airflow. They're planning on airflow to travel from the storage area up into the ceiling etc over the main room. I've asked them to work on the airflow problem and board it because I want insulation (I don't want cold air leaking through the hatches in the dwarf wall) and I also want a neat job in the storage area. Does this seem reasonable?

Any advice very welcome! Thanks!

 

[Marakith]

Connecting the new timber into the old timber is ok for shorter lengths and it will help to brace what is already in place. What are they using for the wall to wall spans to take the additional weight of someone potentially walking around in the rooms you have created? The original roof timbers are only strong enough to carry the weight of the original roof and the associated loadings (read, wind and snow)

Thanks for checking on this. Yes - there's quite a bit of steel braced across the top walls of the house, with timber floor joists attached. The only place that the original ceiling timbers will be walked on will be in the under eaves storage area.
Also reassuring that this connecting to the original timber is OK. Phew!

For the last point read up on cold and warm lofts. It would appear from reading your post you have a cold loft and you need to keep it that way and allow the air flow over the top of the newly created space to allow for any moist air to disperse. If you try and insulate and don't do this properly you will have moisture build-up and condensation in the new rooms. You will need to ensure you don't have any cold bridging into the new space from your cold loft area. It essentially just extends the upper floor of you house into that space and your loft is now the area external to you new rooms.

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Thanks for this. Yep - super conscious of this problem. Will seek to get this ventilated through soffit venting and tile vents where required.

Many thanks for the answers!

 

[Marakith]

Thanks, all for the input! Much appreciated.

(Yes - I have done all the right paperwork, but thanks for checking!)

 

[Marakith]

Update!

About 4 weeks in, the main subcontractor walked off the project because he had had the last straw with the company - they were messing him about with building materials and putting him under time pressure to cut corners and move onto the next job. He has now taken time off with stress.

I have also been poorly treated as a customer - with requests for information being ignored, sarcastic comments when I've asked for several weeks for issues to be resolved, and have been told that some issues were "Not my problem, it's not my house is it!?"

A week later a new subcontractor crew turned up and moved the project forward. I got building control in to check over the work, and they noticed significant structural problems with the build. Nothing that can't be remedied, but I don't know how much it'll cost.

I have asked (via email) the main company office for a written remedial works plan, but my email has been ignored.

The main office has now asked for more money (to pay for a milestone that has not yet been completed). The subcontractors on site have asked for more money also. I'm refusing to pay because the milestone isn't complete and I have asked again for a remedial works plan and said I will not pay any further milestones until the plan is in place, the work is done and it is signed off by building control.

In a later email the head office has told me to talk to the subcontractor. But I have no written acknowledgement that these issues are accepted by the main office or that they are taking it seriously.

The subcontractor has now (I think under instruction from the main office) contacted me to say they won't be resuming work until the situation is "sorted out". Similarly, I don't want to release any more funds until I have the work done as I don't trust the main office any more. The sub has told me that this firm has form here - they seem to try to bully customers and "every other job" there's a situation like this. I currently have 25% of the money left - and the contractor advised he would do the same in my position.

I intend to offer them reasonable time to produce a remedial works plan (what is a fair timescale?) and if this isn't forthcoming to terminate the contract with them (how do I do this right?), get someone else in to finish the work and charge them for the remedial work to fix the structural issue (I assume this will require legal action). It is very cold in our house now and I really want the gaps closed up and work finished - but we can wait things out if necessary.

Am I going about things the right way here? Any advice gratefully received - thanks in advance!

 

[Marakith]

Thanks for all the replies.

As an update - an time-limited ultimatum sent on Monday got some attention, but now they've stalled again.

I'm gathering quotes elsewhere. I've got legal cover, thankfully. Initial phone consultations with them were very helpful. Now I need to work out how to transition from one builder to another and all the logistical shenanigans that comes with that.

 

[Marakith]

Have you got technical drawings? If not it might be worth getting some drawn up. The reason is that you can be very specific as to what is required from now to the finish. It’ll allow a more transparent quote and let the builders know what you’re expecting.

Thanks! Yes I do. From the structural engineers and architects.

I did another tour of the site yesterday. Steels on spreader plates, which then are on wood blocks on brick. It's really weird that they did this.

 

[Marakith]

So - more fun and games!

I've been having some legal back and forth and they're working again.

Now I've noticed the angles in the walls aren't 90 degrees. They are meant to be. So in one room (the bathroom) a board measuring 120cm wide has a corner in the corner of the room, but the other corner of it is 3.5cm away from the wall studs. This will absolutely ruin the tiling once everything is plastered. I think it's unacceptable but am being told they'll even out things with plasterboard and battens. Am I being unreasonable to expect they'd put in stud walls that are squared off with each other?

Thanks!

 

[Marakith]

What have building control said about the steel on wood?

They've agreed with me. Builders seem to have remedied it and BC over to review today.

I think the only way forward is a bodge with the plasterboards at this rate -

 

[Marakith]

Finally the Velux windows are in! I noticed they haven't filled the gaps with expanding foam.

They didn't use a foam collar kit either. Presumably they should at least be using foam, right?

 

[Marakith]

Hey Karl!

Thanks for asking - all got sorted in the end.

I had to fire the original company and use some trusted Polish builders I know. They worked really hard to suck the poison out of the build and delvered a really nice finish.

The corners that were cut by the original crew, and the absolute lack of interest in doing a decent job was shocking. I'm a pushy project manager for work, so I hate to think about what they do to other people. I fought with them all the way - but it's different if it's a project above your own head and not one you're running for a company.

Some of the horrors included - steel resting on wood, not padstones, loose roof tiles, shoddy electrics and plumbing, stairs not properly installed, exterior rendering half done, "mistakes" relating to payments etc etc. Sometimes I had to point the faults out several times, have a row, and then finally get it sorted.

I think the problem was that they were all sub-sub-contractors on crappy day rates and didn't give a toss. At one point I had building control on at them and I had to threaten legal action.

I wish I'd just gone with my trusted known builders, but thought I was doing the right thing hiring a specialist. My trusted builders put it all right, unless there were some corners cut that weren't worth the money to fix.

Here are some photos (some of these were still Work in Progress when taken)

 

[Marakith]

Looks good in the end @Marakith! Like the tiling.

How much did it cost you approximately all in?

Thank you! The guys managed to straighten the walls out nicely and line everything up. I still chuckle occasionally when I notice something neat about the job.

Probably about £70k all in. Complete roof removal and rebuild.

 

[Marakith]

That's a lovely job @Marakith, bet you're really pleased with it.

I get the impression that a lot of people would've been taken advantage of if they didn't have as much in the way of project management experience with you, or the will to see it through, so well done.

Can I please ask what sort of size the floor plan is in square metres?

Thanks, @Karl that's nice of you to say so. Yes - really pleased now it's all sorted.

Probably around 30 square meters including bed not including the loft landing or eaves storage space. So not huge but a good sized bedroom and good sized bathroom.

Happy to advise if you're thinking about any of this yourself. I learned LOADS during the process.

 

[Marakith]

I appreciate that, thank you. We’ve had a friend who’s an architect offer to draw up some plans for a loft conversion, and we’ve started on the journey of working how things fit best. Your expertise would be invaluable when we kick things in to gear, but that won’t be for a little while yet

It would be my pleasure.

 

[Marakith]

I wouldn't name them unless you are certain of your criticism. Otherwise they could sue you!

I'm on solid ground with my criticisms, but I don't want trouble either, so I'll describe it. The company is based in Harlow, has a buttload of 5* reviews on Google. It's clear most of these are fake, and these are there to bury a few scathing 1* reviews that I can totally relate to.

There are two men who run it together and they are initially very charming but not super professional at the same time. They claim to be members of the FMB, but have been expelled. So whatever you do, check the accreditations with the relevant body before engaging anyone. I wish I had.

If people reading this are still unsure - please DM me and I'll be happy to help.