Looking for advice...

Shep_Cobain

Shep_Cobain

Shep_Cobain

Soldato
Joined
26 Feb 2007
Posts
3,322
Location
Blackpool
I’m looking for some outside opinions because I’m too close to this situation and it’s turning into conflict.

A close friend of mine offered to help me with a project at my house. I originally planned to do it with a family member, but my friend insisted he’d help and said we could get it done together in a day. I agreed.

We spent a full Saturday on it together. I paid for all materials and food, and we worked side by side the entire day. At no point before or during the work did we discuss payment, rates, or money. I genuinely believed we were just helping each other out, as we’ve both done many times over the years.

Important context:
Over the course of our friendship, I’ve helped him countless times with things like fixing stuff at his house, helping with vehicles, giving lifts at short notice, spending whole days helping with projects, and generally being there whenever he needed it. I’ve never charged or expected payment, and neither of us has ever kept a score.

A week or so later, communication went a bit quiet. Then he messaged asking if the project was finished. I replied that it was, and mentioned I’d been busy with work. He then told me I owed him £120 for that Saturday.

This completely caught me off guard. I replied honestly and said I hadn’t expected to be charged, as we never discussed money and I thought we were helping each other out as mates. I said if payment had been mentioned upfront, I’d have made a different decision.

Since then, things have escalated badly.

He’s said:

He assumed I knew he’d expect to be paid

That because I paid him for work years ago in a totally different situation, I should have known

That I ignored him (I hadn’t – I’d just been busy)

That I don’t care about him or his family

That I’ve made him feel used

That the amount is “small” and I’m making a big deal out of it


He’s sent long messages, accused me of always thinking I’m right, and has repeatedly called me despite me asking for space. When I don’t answer, he sends “?” messages.

From my side:

I never agreed to pay

I never expected payment

I paid for everything else

I worked the full day alongside him

He insisted on helping when I had another option

I’ve helped him many times over the years without ever charging


I’ve tried explaining calmly, but every explanation seems to make things worse. It feels like he wants an argument rather than a resolution.

Some people have suggested I should just pay the money to end the conflict. Others say that sets a bad precedent and rewards behaviour that feels unfair.

At this point, I’m less bothered about the money and more about whether I’m being unreasonable for refusing to pay when:

No payment was agreed

It was presented as helping out

I’ve never charged him for similar or greater help


Am I wrong for standing my ground here?
Should I pay just to keep the peace, or is it reasonable to refuse and step back from the situation?

Genuinely looking for objective opinions.
 
You know what, for an easy life I'd probably just pay the £120, maybe call it £100 (make up yourskint or whatever) and then cut all contact and move on with your life.

Seems quite a cheap price to fund out that someone is actually a complete ****.
 
BUDFORCE said:
You know what, for an easy life I'd probably just pay the £120, maybe call it £100 (make up yourskint or whatever) and then cut all contact and move on with your life.

Seems quite a cheap price to fund out that someone is actually a complete ****.
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Yeah I think I'd do this too.
 
Reminds me of a quote from A Bronx Tale

You don't even like him. There's your answer right there. Look at it this way: It costs you 20 dollars to get rid of him... He's out of your life for 20 dollars. You got off cheap. Forget him
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Change 20 to 120 and move on. Guy sounds like a roaster.

Edit:
Or, you could drop the price to 80 or something on the basis that nothing was agreed and tell him to do one.. politely. There was no contract so he doesn’t have a leg to stand on, that’s goodwill and nothing more.
 
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Friendship is over either way. If you don't pay he'll be mad at you and you'll be mad at him, if you do pay he'll be happy but you'll still not want anything to do with him.

I think technically you are in the right. It was a friend helping a friend and no quote agreed. So if we're thinking of it like a business trying to claim an unpaid invoice he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

He's already acted a bit weird and I wonder if he's likely to escalate and cause you problems that it's worth 120 quid to avoid. If your gut says he might then this is the way.

If you're not that worried about him and you can just 1v1 him, then fair enough keep your 120 quid.
 
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weringo said:
What is his job, what was the nature of the work, and what was the nature of the work you paid him for last time?
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Hes an apprentice plumber.

Last time he moved and washing machine for me and a sink. Something I didn't help with. His wife kept calling him, again, despite him offering to help. We spent some time chatting, I grabbed him some lunch and did other jobs whilst he did it. His wife turned up and gave him grief for spending all day at mine. When he was leaving I thanked him and said ill get him a takeaway and send him some money. And I said, how much? He smiled and said im his best mate and hed feel cheeky asking.

He then sent me a rather surprising expensive bill. I sent it, but felt dissapointed at how much he asked for.

This time it was different, he k ew me and my dad were doing the work and insisted helping and said we'd complete it quicker. He then said for my dad not to help as we can do it together.

He then waited 6 weeks later to present me with a message requesting money.

The worst bit is, 2.5 years ago he had no idea what a screwdriver or a spanner was. I replumbed his cylinder expansion which fell and broke. I fixed his bath leak, his toilet leak, redesigned his back garden, changed light fittings in his new build, fixed his alarm on his car. All which took hours and sometimes all of my Saturday or Sunday.

Never once asked for a penny.
 
Shep_Cobain said:
I’m looking for some outside opinions because I’m too close to this situation and it’s turning into conflict.

A close friend of mine offered to help me with a project at my house. I originally planned to do it with a family member, but my friend insisted he’d help and said we could get it done together in a day. I agreed.

We spent a full Saturday on it together. I paid for all materials and food, and we worked side by side the entire day. At no point before or during the work did we discuss payment, rates, or money. I genuinely believed we were just helping each other out, as we’ve both done many times over the years.

Important context:
Over the course of our friendship, I’ve helped him countless times with things like fixing stuff at his house, helping with vehicles, giving lifts at short notice, spending whole days helping with projects, and generally being there whenever he needed it. I’ve never charged or expected payment, and neither of us has ever kept a score.

A week or so later, communication went a bit quiet. Then he messaged asking if the project was finished. I replied that it was, and mentioned I’d been busy with work. He then told me I owed him £120 for that Saturday.

This completely caught me off guard. I replied honestly and said I hadn’t expected to be charged, as we never discussed money and I thought we were helping each other out as mates. I said if payment had been mentioned upfront, I’d have made a different decision.

Since then, things have escalated badly.

He’s said:

He assumed I knew he’d expect to be paid

That because I paid him for work years ago in a totally different situation, I should have known

That I ignored him (I hadn’t – I’d just been busy)

That I don’t care about him or his family

That I’ve made him feel used

That the amount is “small” and I’m making a big deal out of it


He’s sent long messages, accused me of always thinking I’m right, and has repeatedly called me despite me asking for space. When I don’t answer, he sends “?” messages.

From my side:

I never agreed to pay

I never expected payment

I paid for everything else

I worked the full day alongside him

He insisted on helping when I had another option

I’ve helped him many times over the years without ever charging


I’ve tried explaining calmly, but every explanation seems to make things worse. It feels like he wants an argument rather than a resolution.

Some people have suggested I should just pay the money to end the conflict. Others say that sets a bad precedent and rewards behaviour that feels unfair.

At this point, I’m less bothered about the money and more about whether I’m being unreasonable for refusing to pay when:

No payment was agreed

It was presented as helping out

I’ve never charged him for similar or greater help


Am I wrong for standing my ground here?
Should I pay just to keep the peace, or is it reasonable to refuse and step back from the situation?

Genuinely looking for objective opinions.
Click to expand...

Give him a six pack of beer, saying that's your payment, you did it for free, if you don't like it go F yourself.
 
throwaway4372 said:
Friendship is over either way. If you don't pay he'll be mad at you and you'll be mad at him, if you do pay he'll be happy but you'll still not want anything to do with him.

I think technically you are in the right. It was a friend helping a friend and no quote agreed. So if we're thinking of it like a business trying to claim an unpaid invoice he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

He's already acted a bit weird and I wonder if he's likely to escalate and cause you problems that it's worth 120 quid to avoid. If your gut says he might then this is the way.

If you're not that worried about him and you can just 1v1 him, then fair enough keep your 120 quid.
Click to expand...


yeah I'd get some CCTV up, you don't know if he'll smash it to be spiteful.
 
Shep_Cobain said:
Hes an apprentice plumber.

Last time he moved and washing machine for me and a sink. Something I didn't help with. His wife kept calling him, again, despite him offering to help. We spent some time chatting, I grabbed him some lunch and did other jobs whilst he did it. His wife turned up and gave him grief for spending all day at mine. When he was leaving I thanked him and said ill get him a takeaway and send him some money. And I said, how much? He smiled and said im his best mate and hed feel cheeky asking.

He then sent me a rather surprising expensive bill. I sent it, but felt dissapointed at how much he asked for.

This time it was different, he k ew me and my dad were doing the work and insisted helping and said we'd complete it quicker. He then said for my dad not to help as we can do it together.

He then waited 6 weeks later to present me with a message requesting money.

The worst bit is, 2.5 years ago he had no idea what a screwdriver or a spanner was. I replumbed his cylinder expansion which fell and broke. I fixed his bath leak, his toilet leak, redesigned his back garden, changed light fittings in his new build, fixed his alarm on his car. All which took hours and sometimes all of my Saturday or Sunday.

Never once asked for a penny.
Click to expand...
If he's a plumber and you paid him for plumbing work last time, I wouldn't have been surprised if he was expecting payment for plumbing work this time around, although clearly it could have been communicated better.

I would just pay the £120 and move on
 
Close friend? And you done as much for him without asking for payment? I would remind him of that

Hmm I would probably just give the money and be done with him , not sure how you carry on with the friendship after wards
 
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Key points to add:

Last year they booked my wife treatment at a spa. They forgot to pay (value was £70). My wife was too embarrassed to ask them to pay whilst at the spa, so ended up paying herself. They never sent any money. Obviously an oversight, but still... a bit crappy.

Also, my wife had booked to see a show at theatre with his wife 12 months in advance. They had agreed to get a hotel for the night etc. 2 weeks before the show, his wife pulled out and left my wife with 2 tickets and no payment. So, she was out of pocket for the tickets and had to fund the hotel on her own. I reluctantly went with her.

All things we never escalated to them, as a friendship meant more. Obviously not. I have since mentioned these points after he has attacked me, but he has dismissed them.
 
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Shep_Cobain said:
Key points to add:

Last year they booked my wife treatment at a spa. They forgot to pay (value was £70). My wife was too embarrassed to ask them to pay whilst at the spa, so ended up paying herself.

Also, my wife had booked to see a show at theatre with his wife 12 months in advance. They had agreed to get a hotel for the night etc. 2 weeks before the show, his wife pulled out and left my wife with 2 tickets and no payment. So, she was out of pocket for the tickets and had to fund the hotel on her own. I reluctantly went with her.

All things we never escalated to them, as a friendship meant more. Obviously not. I have since mentioned these points after he has attacked me, but he has dismissed them.
Click to expand...

They're a bunch of sponges, ditch em.

Sponges or spongers I forget what is the right word
 
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BUDFORCE said:
You know what, for an easy life I'd probably just pay the £120, maybe call it £100 (make up yourskint or whatever) and then cut all contact and move on with your life.

Seems quite a cheap price to fund out that someone is actually a complete ****.
Click to expand...
100% this.

Pay him the money, but make it clear it means any relationship is now at an end. Mourn and move on.
 
Shep_Cobain said:
Key points to add:

Last year they booked my wife treatment at a spa. They forgot to pay (value was £70). My wife was too embarrassed to ask them to pay whilst at the spa, so ended up paying herself. They never sent any money. Obviously an oversight, but still... a bit crappy.

Also, my wife had booked to see a show at theatre with his wife 12 months in advance. They had agreed to get a hotel for the night etc. 2 weeks before the show, his wife pulled out and left my wife with 2 tickets and no payment. So, she was out of pocket for the tickets and had to fund the hotel on her own. I reluctantly went with her.

All things we never escalated to them, as a friendship meant more. Obviously not. I have since mentioned these points after he has attacked me, but he has dismissed them.
Click to expand...
Personally, I'd be reminding him of these and then telling him to take the proverbial long walk on a short pier.
 
I’m really struggling with the idea of paying, mainly because he knew from the start that I was planning to do the work with my dad. He told me to cancel that plan and insisted on helping me himself instead.

He’s now saying he only offered because my dad had been unwell (which was actually several months earlier), and that he suggested I labour for him because it would be cheaper for me. Initially, he claimed I had said this to him, but when I challenged back and said it never happened, he changed his version and said he had said it to me. A fabricated explanation after the fact.

He’s also argued that I was happy to pay other people for work, but those situations were completely different:

A) I didn’t work alongside them, and
B) they weren’t close friends.
C) they were qualified tradesmen I had been recommended.

I did point out that, in another situation, a friend-of-a-friend came round after work, sourced materials through his own job, and completed the work before I even got home. When I offered to pay him, he refused and said he was just helping a mate. I later gave him two cases of beer as a thank-you, which he wasn’t expecting but appreciated.
 
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