Man of Honour
Every time the +carer card is used the bus company charge the issuer for two tickets even if only one person got on buy the sound of it
Looking for outside opinion - Free Disabled bus travel with carer
- Thread starter Resident
- Start date
Commissario
I can actually think (having thought about it for a few minutes) two very easy ways to sort that.
Either change the bus payment terminal so it has a "+1" option for the disabled card (charges for 1 person by default, and adds the carer when selected), or change the "+ carer" card to a "carer" card that is only valid when presented alongside the "disabled" card.
The carer card would not need to be for a named person, just that it only be valid when used with the "disabled card" (in a similar way to whilst most disabled parking badgers are issued to a named person, some are issued to an organisation).
IIRC disabled railway cards work similar to the first option, you get a discount on the ticket, but you can select during purchase that you need two tickets with the discount, thus the carer gets the same benefit.
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Carer's cannot travel on a disabled card without the card holder. It's considered fraudulent use and I have, in the past, revoked a pass for this.
The loss comes from overpaying the bus company. The payments are funded by taxpayer's cash, which is allocated to each Transport Executive. It's a finite resource.
Soldato
I’m maybe wrongly thinking of London but isn’t TFL taxpayer funded too? So it’s just moving taxpayer funding from one pot to another?
Unless there are complaints of a lack of funding for disabled passes due to this double charge occasionally occurring I can’t see the problem.
I guess you could issue two cards- one tap in for the disabled person and a non tappable card for the +1 which the driver can be shown and the disabled card can simply be tapped again?
I also think I’m not seeing the problem as I’m working on the assumption it has already been paid for upon issue rather than it being linked to a pay as you go pot- so the moneys already been spent on two bus passes at issue.
Soldato
I was thinking this might be the case. Carers could use the blue badge without the disabled person at one point. But then the rules got changed because people were abusing it.
I think a seperate carers card would be better, for discount travel.
A separate carers card gets over the financial aspect of the problem, though looking at our local councils criteria for getting the 'companion pass' it requires a medical professional to certify that the person requiring the card is medically unable to travel on a bus alone, so you don't get past the concerns of some of the drivers that these people shouldn't be taking the bus alone if their condition has been deemed that severe by a medical professional.
Soldato
Yes I think you’re on to a much bigger problem than the “double charging”.
It will be potential litigation where the company is sued if something occurs to a disabled person who has been certified to be unable to travel without a carer but who has nevertheless been permitted to travel.
Commissario
Is it litterally that they've been "certified to need a carer" because they are always unable to travel without one, or because they usually need one? Always unable/Always under all circumstances needing one is a much higher bar than any other benefit or allowance that i'm aware of.
The wording is odd, given that higher rate mobility is based on normal needs but allows for the fact that things vary (IE you might be able to do it one day, but not normally, or it might make your condition much worse).
The same with blue badges, you can get one if you cannot normally manage to do certain things safely/at all, that doesn't mean that you can never do them safely in any circumstances.
The wording is odd, given that higher rate mobility is based on normal needs but allows for the fact that things vary (IE you might be able to do it one day, but not normally, or it might make your condition much worse).
The same with blue badges, you can get one if you cannot normally manage to do certain things safely/at all, that doesn't mean that you can never do them safely in any circumstances.
How often does this happen?
The particular wording of my local council is:
It's not caveated with 'usually' or 'often', it's a fairly absolute statement really (and one that surprised me, as you suggest, that's quite a high bar)
We've had 3 medical incidents this week, 2 the week before. I can't remember a week where it hasn't happened at least once. Although these are not necessarily a disabled passenger but they're collated as one stat.
The company suffers financial sanctions by the local authority as well as the loss of income from the lost service. Usually, if we have a spare driver & vehicle that knows the routes they will dispatch them to cover until the scheduled one can get back into service. However paying a driver to sit around just in case costs money, as does having a vehicle sat at the depot. Obviously there's a period of time because you can't get the bus to the location instantly.
So it's a regular and significant occurrence? In that case you are right to be concerned and raise the issue.
I think you need to go back and re-read the thread. It seems reading comprehension isn't one of your best strengths.
We do thousands of journeys each day so some might say it's not significant enough (one of the counter arguements being used). But aside the impact to the company there's also the impact on the other travellers.
What if Rita is on her way to the hospital to see her dying husband?
What if Sue is on her final written at work for being late, has now caught an earlier bus so she doesn't get fired?
What if Bob, who's a carer and on his way to client?
And they all get delayed by someone who needed a carer and travelled without and had an episode
In the county where I work the figures show that almost 80% (78.9% for the pedants) of passengers use an authority issued free pass & has increased year on year for the last 9 (this includes OAPs, there's no separation of those figures available, at least to me). The national average is 32%.
The local authority simply cannot afford it so I get why they're looking at this a cost-saving issue, whilst we, the operators are arguing the health & safety side and service disruption as a greater validity.
No-one is saying that disabled people cannot travel, simply that if they declare they need a carer to travel (in order to secure a +carer pass) then they must have one to travel.
Yes, I understand chronic disabilities, I have one. If there are occasions where I would need a carer to travel with me then the Mobility component of my PIP is there to cover that additional cost.
Is this kinda the same argument as I thought they changed the rules or closed the loop hole a while back with something similar when it came to the tax and or insurance on disabled registered vehicles as family members/random people where driving the vehicles and abusing it.
Thats crazy high so at a poor uneducated guess is that tax payers are paying for people to free travel to work for companies and instead of changing the eligibility or part funding etc the card issuer starts complaing/going after the disabled as its an easy target.
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There are only 3 free travel passes available in my area
OAP - Paid for by tax payer directly
Disabled (with/without carer) - Paid for by tax payer directly
School - paid for by LEA.
There's also no means testing for Disabled cards, so you could have someone who's completely unable to work and living soley on welfare close to the poverty line and then someone like me, who qualifies for a disabled card but manages to work full-time, is eligible for PIP etc and both would still get a disabled travel pass.
I travel for free anyway as I work in the industry so we have industry agreements. Just wish it applied to air travel
What are you waiting for then? 40 hours in a single engine and you're eligible for private jets!Just wish it applied to air travel
I meant the free travel bit.
Either way, only need 38hrs. Had a 2hr lesson as a 30th birthday present