Looking for some advice

glosrfc

glosrfc

glosrfc

Associate
Joined
23 Dec 2012
Posts
78
Hi all and compliments of the Christmas season to you.

I'm after a bit of advice on a system purchase. I don't really play games although I'd like that to be an option. But I do need a machine that can allow me to do some serious multi-tasking as it's not uncommon for me to have a number of Excel, Word, Dreamweaver, and Flash processes open at the same time. I would also like it to be future-proof, at least, as far as that's possible! Ideally, I would also like to connect two monitors.

I wish I'd stumbled upon this site earlier as it would've saved me a lot of stumbling around, and confusion. However, after weeks of research, I seem to have settled on this configuration (running on Windows 7):

CPU: Intel Core i5 3570K
CPU Cooler: Xigmatek Loki SDS963
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z77-D3H
Memory: 8GB Corsair 1600mhz Vengeance (2x4GB)
Storage: 1TB S-ATAIII 6.0Gb/s
Optical Drive: 22x DVD±RW DL S-ATA
Graphics card: Onboard Video
Sound card: Onboard 7.1 Audio
Case: Zalman Z9 Plus
PSU: 500W Xigmatek NRP-VC503

The whole thing is likely to cost around £530. So my questions are:
a) Do I really need the i5 3570k? I ask this because an old XP-based Athlon II processor seemed to cope pretty well with just 512Mb of RAM installed, until the motherboard gave up on me. Would the 3570k be overkill?
b) I don't really plan on overclocking or, if I do, it will only be by a small amount. Is the cooler necessary or would the Intel fan suffice?
c) Bearing (a) and (b) in mind, I do want to have two monitors so that I can have a code window displayed on one, and the results/design window displayed on the other. As far as I'm aware, the combination of an i5 2570k, Z77-D3H, and the Intel HD4000 GPU will run three monitors - but are there alternative (maybe cheaper) options?
d) That option may include a discrete GPU. Although games will not be a priority, it's something I might consider in the future so I'd like that upward scalability to be available. The only "game" I regularly play is Flight Simulator 9, which is another reason for the twin monitor setup.
e) I could bite the bullet and get a HD 7750/7770 card now, which would push the cost up to around £620. Alternatively, I could go for a 120GB S-ATAII 3.0Gb/s SSD instead, for a total of £590. Is this second option:
i) preferable to the graphic card?
ii) actually worth the additional expense?
iii) am I correct in assuming that the S-ATAII "bottleneck" is neglible given the read/write speed of the SSD itself?​
f) Finally, is the PSU acceptable for this configuration?

Apologies for all the questions but hopefully, when the effects of the brandy sauce has worn off, some of you might be able to give me some helpful pointers.

Merry Christmas to you all.
 
Being underage (16) means my heard is relatively clear ;)

The i5 may very well be OTT for your needs, I am not familiar with a lot of software but the only software which I know taxes modern CPU's is gaming, encoding and video editing. Amongst other badly coded software.

The i3 might be just as good for you needs as it uses hyperthreading. Effectively giving a 2 core chip 4 threads, however the software needs to be able to utilize HT first, which only some do.

A 4.0Ghz overclock is doable on the stock cooler but it can and will get noisy and hot, if you can afford it get an aftermarket cooler. If your not keen on overclocking the MSI G43 Z77 board is voltage locked but will overclock to around 4.2Ghz and comes with an aftermarket cooler.

Unless I am mistaken Flight Simular heavily favours Nvidia, so you would be better off looking at the 650 / 650TI. The standard 650 loses to the 7770 to all non biased games though (that I know off).

Finally I would look into a PSU like PC P&C, Antec or Seasonic. These all use Seasonic internals which we try to speck where possible. Seasonic's warranty is also covered entirely through OCUK. So no need to send to manufactuer.

Hope this helps ;) :)
 
If you like the Z9 plus (I do I own one), consider looking at the Z9 U3 (sadly not stocked here) which is the updated improved version.

The i5K will help your flight sim as it's more CPU dependent than GPU. Bacon is right look for a nvidia GPU, even a 1GB 460 2nd hand (circa £50) would do nicely.

YOUR BASKET
1 x Intel Core i5-3570K 3.40GHz (Ivybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor (77W) - Retail £167.99
1 x MSI Z77A-G43 Intel Z77 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard - FREE Alpenföhn Civetta Cooler!! £69.98
1 x PC Power & Cooling Silencer Mk III Series 500W '80 Plus Bronze' Modular Power Supply - White £59.99
1 x Toshiba (7K1000.D) 1TB SATA 6GB/s 32MB Cache - OEM (DT01ACA100) £54.98
1 x Xigmatek Asgard Pro Gaming Case - Black £32.99
1 x Crucial Ballistix Sport 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (BLS2CP2G3D1609DS1S00CEU) £25.99
1 x Asus 24x DVD±RW DRW-24B5ST SATA ReWriter - Black (Retail) £17.99
Total : £444.01 (includes shipping : £11.75).



The Z77-D3H is a fine mobo, I've used this MSI mobo on offer with a cooler bundled with it. It's voltage locked so not ideal for overclocking but you can still push that i5K a little harder (~4.2Ghz). Not sure if you need the OS as well but there is money left over to buy it or that GPU 2nd hand I mentioned
 
Bacon? said:
Uhhhh Hono you know you specc'd 4GB of RAM right ;)
Click to expand...

The 8GB kit was that price, which is what caught me out as the offer has only just stopped. I do get annoyed with how the prices fluctuate here makes spec'ing a pain in the ass lol 4GB isn't a total fail though, the rig would still run fine. Might as well note now that he needs a 64bit OS to use more than 4GB......just incase he is reusing a windows 7 licence he already has.

YOUR BASKET
1 x Intel Core i5-3570K 3.40GHz (Ivybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor (77W) - Retail £167.99
1 x MSI Z77A-G43 Intel Z77 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard - FREE Alpenföhn Civetta Cooler!! £69.98
1 x PC Power & Cooling Silencer Mk III Series 500W '80 Plus Bronze' Modular Power Supply - White £59.99
1 x Toshiba (7K1000.D) 1TB SATA 6GB/s 32MB Cache - OEM (DT01ACA100) £54.98
1 x Patriot Viper "Black Mamba" Generation 3 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (PV38G160C9K) £34.99
1 x Xigmatek Asgard Pro Gaming Case - Black £32.99
1 x Asus 24x DVD±RW DRW-24B5ST SATA ReWriter - Black (Retail) £17.99
Total : £453.01 (includes shipping : £11.75).



Fixed, thanks for spotting it bacon :)
 
Hey, thanks for the responses...very quick considering we should all be on our hols :)

I did think the i5 might be OTT, and that I could make a considerable saving with a cheaper processor. My only concern there is that, in a couple of years time, I could be some way behind the curve which would neccesitate a further upgrade. Also, as you point out, software has to be able to use multi-threading whereas the OS should be able to apportion processes to multiple cores, although I could be wrong there.

Thanks for the video advice. That probably explains why, on a PC with an old ATI card, Flight Sim reboots the system when I end a flight!! I'd based my research on the "best" budget graphic card and the 650ti was ranked third behind the two I mentioned so there really wasn't much in it. It would have to be budget though, as I don't think I can justify paying more for the card than the entire PC, given the limited use it's likely to get.

And again on the cooler. My last two PC's both gave up the ghost because the standard cooler fell off as the plastic lugs holding it to the board deteriorated. So I'll take the advice and go for something more robust. I also like the case too as it was my initial first choice but changed to the Z9 Plus - partly based on some reviews here, and also because I believe the fans wouldn't be controlled by the Gigabyte board so the controller would be handy. Apart from that, it was a split decision between the two cases.

At the moment, I'm using XP so I would have to add the cost of Win 7 to that and yes, that would justify the additional RAM.

As I said, I'm happy to not bother with any gaming for now - my real priority is to have a machine that will allow me to run a multitude of programs simultaneously and speedily. To give you an idea of my usual taskbar, I'm normally developing in VBA (so that's 2-3 windows), with a couple of Word processes open (invoices, program control), and Outlook. Dreamweaver is also usually running with at least half a dozen pages being created. And then, at some point, I'll need to launch Photoshop to sort out some fresh graphics, etc, to say nothing about various browsers running concurrently. So it'll be intensively processing before I even get to installing any games.

The specs you've provided are great as I can save quite a bit with a self-build, although never having done one before...yikes! As you haven't included a video card, I guess you're confirming that I should probably add one later when I feel it's needed - providing that the motherboard will also support a dual monitor setup? I assume so as it uses the same chipset and CPU.

It only leaves the one question - if I do go for an nVidia card at a later date, are there any substantial benefits with going for an SSD now? I was thinking that I could put the OS on it, along with Office and possibly Photoshop.

Thanks for the great advice.
 
I own the Z9+ as I said (Bacon had one too). The U3 has USB3 ports at the front and it has a proper side window not like the Z9+ which is mostly mesh. It has a dual channel fan controller the fans are 3 pin and one uses a molex connector for power.

The i3 is a great bang for buck CPU. The 3240 has the better internal graphics HD4000 (like the i5K 3570K), it's more than the i3 3220 though. Probably wise to go for the i5K as it is a real quad core and you can overclock it for better results.

SSDs are great, with the OS installed you are looking 10-20 secs tops to boot into the OS. I've done a number of crimbo builds with the i3 and a SSD and everyone was impressed with the speed of the thing.

You can run two screens off the mobo, if you want to run three screens then using the 600 series GPUs from nvidia makes sense. AMD cards have allowed triple screens for quite some time now but FSX likes nvidia. You can certainly worry about the GPU later on.

If you have never built a rig before then maybe this video will help

 
Great stuff again. I had looked at the Z11 but rejected that on the basis that the USB3 ports had to be routed to one of the ports at the back of the PC which looks pretty ugly to me. It seems the U3 resolves that although, to be honest, all my existing peripherals are USB2 anyway. It was really a future upgrade option for when the availibility of USB3 components begin to overtake USB2, and was part of my thinking behind the D3H as that has two extra USB3 ports at the rear.

I also like the non-mesh panel too as that would eliminate a potential dust entry source. I see the U3 doesn't have a side fan - I guess that's based on feedback that the original Z9 Plus fan suffered from some vibration. I understand the need for there to be some cooling but I'm also not a fan of these garish gamer cases that look like something from Close Encounters of the Third Kind. So congratulations, you've persuaded me there.

I can't envisage a need for three screens just yet but I've always found two to be handy when you're trying to switch between code/design view in Flash or Dreamweaver. And I'll probably stick with the i5 and a Z77 chipset. At the end of the day, I realise that it all comes down to some compromise - I'm just trying to ensure that I don't compromise on something which turns out to be vital when I inevitably upgrade later.

That video is really useful too. I realise that a lot of the construction is a bit like putting a lego set together, in that things will usually only fit one way round...it's the bits like sticking the cooler to the chip that worry me a bit. I've a pal who's built a few PCs before though, so he can probably help me out in exchange for a few pints. Many thanks, it's most appreciated.
 
The Zalman U3 also has to route the usb3 cables out of the back sadly. I know because I've used it a lot lately. There is a PCI bracket to help you route it out the back, it's not a deal breaker, if you want an adapter to run the ports off the mobo that's doabubble

YOUR BASKET
1 x Akasa USB 3.0 internal adapter cable (AK-CBUB09-15BK) £5.99
Total : £5.99 (includes shipping : FREE).



Considering the U3 has 3 fans (2 blue led), a fan controller for those two led fans, a digital temp display, dust filters for the PSU intake (Z9 plus doesnt) and an extension for the P4/8 aux CPU power to help you route the cable behind the mobo......there is a lot to like for the price
 
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