Looking for upgrade advice

darael

darael

darael

Soldato
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10 Jul 2010
Posts
7,300
I'm considering upgrading my 7th gen i5 build and I've tried to spec myself a build. But I'd welcome advice from others with more knowledge.

First off my PSU is a Super Flower Golden Green HX 450W which was bought in 2015. It's been completely rock solid, but with it creeping up to 10 years old, I'm starting to think I should I get another. When cleaning my PC today, I took a look in the PSU through the fan and it looks virtualy dust free. Of course, this isn't going to make up for it's age.

I should say that I'm not a fan of RGB, but I accept that a lot of hardware has it now. I can turn off the RGB on my motherboard and I'm happy with that.

I'm planning on a buying a new motherboard, RAM, CPU , heatsink and a potentially a PSU. I try to buy things to last, so don't really mind if I have to pay a bit extra for the reliability from a decent brand.

Being aware of how the cost of everything has increased, I'm going to allow what I feel is a fair budget of around £750. My own spec, without the PSU, came to around £609 so I think I'm being quite reasonable. But I'm happy to allow a little more, especially for better reliability or quality.

Now the sticky part. I'd like to stick with Asus for my motherboard and Intel for my CPU. I'm not too sure about PSU, but I think SuperFlower, be quiet! and Seasonic are all decent brands.

The PC will be using for some video encoding (not too much), one or two virtual machines, building and customising of Windows images and some very light gaming (hence my current GPU).

I currently have an Nvidia 1050Ti, PCIe ethernet (I've find this far more stable in terms of speed and ping than onboard) and a Creative SB0880 (I doubt I'll be using onboard sound any time soon).

Anyway, excluding the PSU, below is my own spec. Criticisms and tweaks are both welcome - to be honest, my main worry is if I've chosen the right chipset.

My basket at OcUK:

Total: £608.96 (includes delivery: £0.00)​
 
Bang for the buck on the gaming front right now is the Radeon RX 6600. Unless you're running 10+ Gb ethernet, you can ditch the add-in NIC - just avoid motherboards with 'Killer' network ports.

I do urge you to look at the Ryzen CPUs like the 7600, and you can get a decent B650 mATX motherboard - the Asrock B650M-HDV/M.2 - for £134.



Here's a 7600-based build, including a GPU and case, so you can keep your existing PC as a spare:

My basket at OcUK:

Total: £725.84 (includes delivery: £7.99)​



​


Add in £134 for the Asrock motherboard from one of OCUK's competitors, unfortunately. The PSU is overkill but will allow you flexibility should you wish to indulge yourself.

Don't forget to consider storage: if your existing SSDs and HDDs are old they might bear replacement.
 
AMD Ryzen 5 7600 Six Core 5.10GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail
CP-3DW-AM
£219 (incl. VAT)
£161 (incl. VAT)
Find out more
Kolink Citadel Mesh Micro-ATX Case - Black
CA-051-KK
£46 (incl. VAT)
£40 (incl. VAT)
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Sapphire Radeon RX 6600 Pulse Gaming 8GB GDDR6 PCI-Express Graphics Card
GX-39R-SP
£200 (incl. VAT)
Find out more
darael said:
My basket at OcUK:

Total: £608.96 (includes delivery: £0.00)​
Click to expand...

The 13400 is a decent productivity CPU, but personally I'd rather have a cheaper board and the 13500 (Alder 6 P-cores and 8 E-cores), 13600K (Raptor 6 P-cores and 8 E-cores) or 13700 non-K (Raptor 8 P-cores and 8 E-cores).

E.g.

My basket at OcUK:

Total: £734.95 (includes delivery: £7.99)​

With this cooler (< £50).

If you are happy with the Alder 6 P-cores and 4 E-cores of the 13400, you could consider going last-gen:

My basket at OcUK:

Total: £667.91 (includes delivery: £7.99)​

With the same cooler as above.
 
Intel Core i5-13400 (Raptor Lake) Socket LGA1700 Processor - Retail
CP-6BC-IN
£230 (incl. VAT)
£200 (incl. VAT)
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Asus TUF Gaming Z790-Plus WIFI (LGA 1700) DDR5 ATX Motherboard
MB-6JM-AS
£230 (incl. VAT)
£200 (incl. VAT)
Find out more
be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 750W ATX 3.1 80 Plus Gold Power Supply
CA-14S-BQ
£100 (incl. VAT)
Find out more
Intel Core i5-13600K (Raptor Lake) Socket LGA1700 Processor - Retail
CP-6AV-IN
£330 (incl. VAT)
£260 (incl. VAT)
Find out more
Asus TUF Gaming B760-Plus WIFI D4 (LGA 1700) DDR4 ATX Motherboard
MB-6K8-AS
£178 (incl. VAT)
Find out more
Intel Core i5-12600K 3.70GHz (Alder Lake) Socket LGA1700 Processor - Retail
CP-69X-IN
£240 (incl. VAT)
£185 (incl. VAT)
Find out more
@Quartz & @Tetras
Thanks for taking the reply with those suggestions.

I'm going to be staying with Intel, as that's what I know, trust and feel comfortable with. I don't need a new graphic card, just the barebones (motherboard, CPU, RAM, heatsink and possibly PSU).

Regarding the PSU, I'd be looking at staying with a ~400W PSU. Anything else is honestly wasted as I don't think I've ever seen my PC use more than 150W. This is mostly to do with energy costs, but also because I have no need for a beefy PSU.

I should have said, that I'd like to keep fan noise down, but not to a totally silent and hardly any airflow level. My current heatsink and fan (Raijintek Themis Direct Contact CPU Cooler) is just nice, as it tends to tick over unless I'm really hammering the CPU for a bit.

I must admit I completely overlooked the CPU and the cores - I just assumed all the i5 series had the same amount of cores. Does the K series still come with onboard graphics? So if anything happened to my 1050Ti, I could fall back on the Intel graphics for a bit.

Motherboard is the confusing bit for me. I don't need Wi-Fi as my router is next to the PC. But I know I can disable the Wi-Fi. Will I really notice anything between the Z790 and B760/B660 chipsets?

Somehow I forgot to mention that I use an M.2 drive and I'm seriously considering using a second in the future. But I'm sure that most motherboards come with 2 x M.2 slots now. I do also use the USB C for my Sabrent USB C M.2 enclousre, so I'd like to try and have a USB C port too.
 
darael said:
Regarding the PSU, I'd be looking at staying with a ~400W PSU. Anything else is honestly wasted as I don't think I've ever seen my PC use more than 150W. This is mostly to do with energy costs, but also because I have no need for a beefy PSU.
Click to expand...

At very low idle/load levels, the wattage of the PSU isn't necessarily the defining factor, the PSU's idle/low energy use can be quite different and it's hard to define that with either the efficiency rating or the wattage.

For example: the idle of this 500 watt PSU is 5.7 watts, while this 1000 watt PSU is 2.8 watt, that means in the very light load testing, the 1000 watt PSU actually won:
20 watt DC into 25 watt AC, ~80% efficiency, compared to 10 watt DC into 16 watt AC, ~62% efficiency. Admittedly it is an unfair test, because they're not both at 10 watt.

Under higher load, you're more likely to be right, e.g. the 100 watt results are turned around, the GX-500 gets 89% efficiency (~12 watts wasted), while the GF3-1000 is 86% (~15 watts wasted).

The most efficient low load PSU is a pico PSU and usually ITX motherboards are better than the larger ones. You might be interested in this thread.

For your use case, I'd consider a NUC (review), or a 12VO pre-built (haven't seen many 12VO PSUs & boards for sale in the UK).

darael said:
I must admit I completely overlooked the CPU and the cores - I just assumed all the i5 series had the same amount of cores.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not and with only the 13600K using Raptor cores, it makes it even more unpredictable.

12400, 12500: 6P, 0E. The 12500 (and up) has a higher spec GPU and 2 encoding/decoding engines.
12600K, 6P, 4E.
13400, 6P, 4E.
13500, 6P, 8E. The 13500 (and up) has a higher spec GPU and 2 encoding/decoding engines.
13600K, (Raptor cores, with more cache) 6P, 8E.
13700, (Raptor cores) 8P, 8E.
13900, (Raptor cores) 8P, 16E.

darael said:
Does the K series still come with onboard graphics?
Click to expand...

The non-K and K have onboard graphics, any F variant (including KF) does not. The IGP is still used in some circumstances, even with a dGPU, which is why I didn't spec an F even though the 13700F is my choice of the line @ OCUK.

darael said:
Motherboard is the confusing bit for me. I don't need Wi-Fi as my router is next to the PC. But I know I can disable the Wi-Fi. Will I really notice anything between the Z790 and B760/B660 chipsets?

Somehow I forgot to mention that I use an M.2 drive and I'm seriously considering using a second in the future. But I'm sure that most motherboards come with 2 x M.2 slots now. I do also use the USB C for my Sabrent USB C M.2 enclousre, so I'd like to try and have a USB C port too.
Click to expand...

You should be able to get 2 M.2 and rear USB Type-C fairly easily on any board, except for H610.

Z790 can overclock K CPUs, that's the main difference, but B660/B760 have a lot less PCI-E lanes, as usual. The lower-end boards are also more likely to lack PCI-E 5.0. I wouldn't recommend Z690/B660 for a 13th gen CPU, just because you'll have to flash the BIOS, but if you don't care about that there are some decent deals around on 12th gen boards (the B660-A in my spec has flashback, by the way, if you were to pair it with a 13th gen CPU).
 
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@Tetras
PSU, I'd rather stay with the standard for now. You've got me wondering if I'd be better off with a 500W PSU purely because they are more efficient. Realistically, how much of a difference will 5W make over 10 years? Maybe I'm overthinking this and should just plump with the cheapest but most reliable PSU brand, whether it's 400W or 500W. At idle, my system seems to sit at 42W - which isn't too bad really. But if I can bring it down, that's a bonus!

CPU, I'll think I'll stick with the 13th gen, purely because I want this system to last me for a while (5 years+). While my current system is fine for what it does, that's about it - fine. I've used 11th and 12th gen systems and they kick the stuffing out of my machine and I daresay they'll be more efficient too. From what you've said, I'm going to plump for the cheapest non-F 13th gen CPU. I last overclocked about 10 years ago and I daresay things are much more complicated now, plus I've no real need for the extra power. So the 13600K fits the bill right now.

I'm wondering if I'd be better off with a B760 chipset as I don't really need overclocking abilities. My H270F doesn't have overclocking abilities and I don't miss them, but I do like being able to tweak power settings in the BIOS, hence wanting to stay with the higher end of the mid-range chipsets.
 
darael said:
PSU, I'd rather stay with the standard for now. You've got me wondering if I'd be better off with a 500W PSU purely because they are more efficient. Realistically, how much of a difference will 5W make over 10 years? Maybe I'm overthinking this and should just plump with the cheapest but most reliable PSU brand, whether it's 400W or 500W. At idle, my system seems to sit at 42W - which isn't too bad really. But if I can bring it down, that's a bonus!
Click to expand...

Staying under 50 with an Intel system & dGPU is pretty easy, 40 is relatively easy, but to go under that, you need to start thinking carefully about the board and PSU. There can be pretty large differences between boards and though features and size has an influence, it isn't consistent.

The thread I linked in my post goes into more detail about different configs. If you look at the NUC review, you'll see that they can be literally just a few watts.

Part of the problem is that standard ATX PSUs (regardless of efficiency) just don't like super light loads, which is where 12VO (most OEM builds use a variation of this) or pico-PSUs come in, because they're far better optimised than standard ATX PSUs. ATX 3.0 was supposed to formalise some improvements there, but they're still not great.

5 watts is about £15 a year, if online 24/7 (based on current prices).

darael said:
I'm wondering if I'd be better off with a B760 chipset as I don't really need overclocking abilities. My H270F doesn't have overclocking abilities and I don't miss them, but I do like being able to tweak power settings in the BIOS, hence wanting to stay with the higher end of the mid-range chipsets.
Click to expand...

I believe you can still change power limits (PL1/PL2 and turbo) on B boards. You can usually see the bios screenshots on YouTube, like this, or in reviews.

For the type of usage you described:

darael said:
The PC will be using for some video encoding (not too much), one or two virtual machines, building and customising of Windows images and some very light gaming (hence my current GPU).
Click to expand...

I'd be going for an affordable B760 board like the below, but I restricted my choice to Asus because that's what you said in the OP:

My basket at OcUK:

Total: £277.97 (includes delivery: £7.99)​

The extra lanes and ports on Z790 is something I'd get if you needed lots of storage or expansion cards, but light productivity and light gaming doesn't really need a £200+ board.

darael said:
CPU, I'll think I'll stick with the 13th gen, purely because I want this system to last me for a while (5 years+). While my current system is fine for what it does, that's about it - fine. I've used 11th and 12th gen systems and they kick the stuffing out of my machine and I daresay they'll be more efficient too. From what you've said, I'm going to plump for the cheapest non-F 13th gen CPU. I last overclocked about 10 years ago and I daresay things are much more complicated now, plus I've no real need for the extra power. So the 13600K fits the bill right now.
Click to expand...

The 13600K is a really good productivity CPU and the first true 13th gen CPU, but I wouldn't be concerned about 12th or 13th gen for your usage, any of those CPUs (12600K/13400 and up) should be a decent upgrade.

I don't know if raptor refresh will be supported on B660/Z690, but I can't see why not.
 
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@Tetras
Sorry for not replying sooner. I've not really had a great amount of time to try and get my around things until now, so I thought I'd make the effort to reply.

I'm not going to become too fixated on energy usage. As long as the system is stable, reliable and reasonably durable then that far outweighs the energy benefits to me. It's not really worth worrying over a few watts here and there. I think I'll still get a 400-500W ATX PSU and see how I feel about the PicoPSUs in the future as they develop and mature. Plus I know I've got a bit of headroom if and when I upgrade my GPU.

When looking at the Asus B760 motherboards, is there anything I should try to avoid? I'm probably looking at full ATX motherboard to accommodate my expansion cards, but just want to avoid any gotchas.
 
darael said:
When looking at the Asus B760 motherboards, is there anything I should try to avoid? I'm probably looking at full ATX motherboard to accommodate my expansion cards, but just want to avoid any gotchas.
Click to expand...

Not that I can think of, no, I'd be content with the price+spec of either of the boards in my builds.
 
What are your add-in card requirements? Seems to me you'd be best off with buying a good NUC or other small form factor barebones for that budget.
 
Tetras said:
Not that I can think of, no, I'd be content with the price+spec of either of the boards in my builds.
Click to expand...
I see what you mean now about motherboards. I wanted to try and buy DDR5 to future proof my build as much as possible and this severely limited the amount of ATX Asus motherboards with the B760 chipset. The range seems much better with the Z790 chipset, so I'll probably opt for that.

The Asus TUF Gaming Z790-Plus WIFI looks to be the best choice, albeit over specced - I guess that's what catering to DDR5 does. :D
 
darael said:
I see what you mean now about motherboards. I wanted to try and buy DDR5 to future proof my build as much as possible and this severely limited the amount of ATX Asus motherboards with the B760 chipset. The range seems much better with the Z790 chipset, so I'll probably opt for that.

The Asus TUF Gaming Z790-Plus WIFI looks to be the best choice, albeit over specced - I guess that's what catering to DDR5 does. :D
Click to expand...
Future proof? You're buying the last gen of the current socket for Intel. By the time you replace the cpu/motherboard again DDR5 will be fully mature (and much cheaper) and the DDR5 you buy now will likely be comparatively slow and with poor timings to match with any CPUs available. If you wait 6 years again then DDR6 will be here.

If you want any level of future proofing then it's more efficient to try and future proof the motherboard/cpu by either buying AM5 or waiting until Intel launch their next socket at the end of this year.

In my experience the only thing that's lasted me more than one build is the PSU (because I overspecced it 7 years ago) and GPU (and if GPUs were sensible money I'd have replaced that by now).
 
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covenantuk said:
Future proof? You're buying the last gen of the current socket for Intel. By the time you replace the cpu/motherboard again DDR5 will be fully mature (and much cheaper) and the DDR5 you buy now will likely be comparatively slow and with poor timings to match with any CPUs available. If you wait 6 years again then DDR6 will be here.

If you want any level of future proofing then it's more efficient to try and future proof the motherboard/cpu by either buying AM5 or waiting until Intel launch their next socket at the end of this year.

In my experience the only thing that's lasted me more than one build is the PSU (because I overspecced it 7 years ago) and GPU (and if GPUs were sensible money I'd have replaced that by now).
Click to expand...
When I say future proofing, I mean I would like the build to last me at least 5 years, knowing I haven't bought already outdated tech only to be replaced the following month. You could argue that when I buy the next gen Intel, I should wait for the next one - I've always said you should buy what you can afford at the time and I feel that this is what I'm doing.

I'm well aware of the AMD side and have been since I started building my own PCs. I just feel more comfortable with Intel and that's not me saying AMD is bad - it's just my opinion, just as I prefer Nvidia over AMD and Asus over Gigabyte.
 
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