Looking to upgrade PC number 2 now....

[darrendb]

So my eldest has been watching and helping me build the moderate PC for my youngest and now realised he's well over due. he's got a 3070ti, ryzen 9 3900xt, ddr 4.

I can't afford to do his whole PC but he's keen to upgrade the core for now so i've put this together, are this a half decent pick? Gets him out of a whole and future proofed?

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Eight Core 5.00GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DT-AM) = £368.99
• 1 x Asrock X670E PG Lightning (Socket AM5) DDR5 EATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-18T-AK) = £299.99
• 1 x Corsair Vengeance RGB EXPO 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C36 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (CMH32GX5M2D6000Z36) (SKU: MY-4DD-CS) = £149.98
• 1 x Corsair Force MP700 1TB NVMe PCIe 5.0 M.2 Solid State Drive (SKU: HD-070-CS) = £149.99

Total: £968.95 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

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[darrendb]

If all he does is gaming, then I'd get the 5800X3D for the current board.

gaming and some video editing. i thought about the 5800x3d but thought as his board is old, ddr4 slow , maybe a complete refresh is in order.

He needs more storage so thought monopolise in the pcie 5?

or, now i'm thinking possible more bang for buck going 5800 and a GPU upgrade

 

[darrendb]

what are the exact specs of the current computer and what is your budget?

ASUS B550 with ryzen 9 3900xt
Corsair 3200mhz DDR4
1 x m.2 and a couple of random SSDs we've kept over the years
850 watt psu
Gigabyte 3070ti

The initial plan was to get all that up to a better baseline, GPU upgrade at a later date

 

[darrendb]

In fact, here it is. Kingston Fury C32

£130. For £20 extra you can go RBG

Also, a Seagate Firecuda 530 2TB PCIe4.0 for £109

Not sure if he would really notice the potential 2s difference in game loading time..

And a pretty decent B650 for £200

All in all, even keeping the 7800X3D still saves you £160 do about £810 total

the only reason for that mobo and m2 choice was the PCEe 5. If it really isn't worth it for gaming i am happy to save the cash!

 

[darrendb]

For loading games, Hogwarts loads in at 26.6s on PCIe 5 and 27.8s on PCIe 4. Second load is about 0.15s slower.

Cyperpunk: 4.06s vs 4.61s

Forza 5: 34.5s vs 36.1s

Horizon Zero Dawn: 8.8s vs 9.01s

There are another two minutes of game loads but you get the idea. Just look for a PCIe 5 vs PCIe 4 games loading.

GN reckon there may be upto 3% on PCIE 5 vs PCI4 using a scaling calculation on a RTX 4090 (which is a PCI4 card). There are no GPU's at present that are PCIe 5 cards at present but will likely be in a couple of years time but for the time being, you may as well save your cash

In that case deffo no point

The 5800x3d is good for gaming but for true multicore work, is slower than the 3900xt
If you're sure that your kid will use multicore for video editing and the like, then consider the 5900x/5950x if you want to stay on AM4.
For multicore performance, the 7800x3d is about comparable (+/-10%) Vs the 3900xt.
You haven't said how much ram you have...I'm assuming 32gb DDR 4?

I would say it is heavily biased towards gaming, he's into thinks like CSGO but big into driving sims like assetto corsa and beam ng i think they're called. Yes he's got 32GB ram currently.

Not sure if this is an easy question, but how much improvement would we see going from his current chip to the 5800 and then How much improvement overall would you see between AM4 / 5800 and AM5 7800 with ddr5?

That's still a high end PC. Does he really need an upgrade now?

Do we really NEED any of this **** lol. And is it? This came because I've built a new pc for my youngest who really did need an upgrade (1600x/1070ti) for xmas. It's a 13600k, ddr 5, 3070. Straight away smashed the benchmark score of the eldest's 3070ti machine and when we overclocked the 3070 the difference in scores was immense. So we agreed maybe its time to give it a refresh lol.

THIS! I'd also get him to get a job and buy it himself or quit complaining That rig is more than up to the task? Or is he lusting after 4k?

lol, he's got a job around college, saving up for a mortgage. this is for xmas presents. Don't mention 4k ffs, then we will be looking at monitors too! 2k for now

Updated, potential, basket:

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Eight Core 5.00GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DT-AM) = £368.99
• 1 x Corsair Vengeance RGB EXPO 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C36 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (CMH32GX5M2D6000Z36) (SKU: MY-4DD-CS) = £149.99
• 1 x Asus ROG Strix B650-A Gaming WIFI (Socket AM5) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-6JY-AS) = £219.99
• 1 x WD Black SN770 1TB SSD M.2 2280 NVME PCI-E Gen4 Solid State Drive (WDS100T3 (SKU: HD-58F-WD) = £46.99

Total: £785.96 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

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15 post limit killing me...

 

[darrendb]

So originally it was basically a grand and now it's £800, for an 'xmas' present... Is your toilet made of carbon fibre as well? Madness, what does he get for a wedding present, a Ferrari or a 2nd house?

Is that unusual?

I haven't added up the total cost of the other pc I've just built for my youngest's xmas present, but it's way more than the numbers above as it was a complete build.

 

[darrendb]

How the other half live I guess? We used to earn things like that ourselves at those sort of ages though or save up/not have it at all.
I'd never dream of asking for a present/to borrow money like that, seems very entitled, and excessive price wise for a present for a kid/teenager or in general tbh.

Just makes me think if you'll get given things like that then the kid will never have the motivation to grind to get things they want, they'll just ask for them/borrow the money.
Dunno mate, different strokes for different folks I guess.

how would us working hard to buy them good things twice a year (xmas/birthday) that they don't ask for make them entitled?

It is one thing passing comment on how much some people spend on xmass presents, it is another making assumptions about my children.

I had buggerall growing up, I've worked damn hard to make sure my kids have better.

Exactly how, and indeed how long, do you expect a 12 year old to save up for a £1500+ pc?

As for this thread, my 17 year old would happily buy his own PC parts, we have told him that we will buy them for xmas. Given he is working every hour he is legally allowed to around full time college to save up for a mortgage deposit. Perhaps I should make him spend that money so when he moves out he has to rent? Then spend the money on me? What would that make me?

Anyway, I've decided to buy another 13600k (f this time to save a few quid..) setup for him, means for the same money above I can get faster RAM, mobo that offers OC and a new CPU cooler.

 

[darrendb]

Because you're working hard for them to have it and not them? And a grand (which you originally spec'ed) is ridiculous for a present, especially to a kid/teen.

But you worked hard got you to a good place where you have that kind of money spare, so surely you'd want them to grow up with the same ethic and earn it, not feel it is owed to them. That's my point.

I don't expect a 12 year old to need a £1500 pc, that statement on it's own is just ridiculous, and then to moan about a setup they already have that matches what most adults go out and work for (that kids his age wouldn't normally have because IDK it's £1500 and they're a kid!!!), is mental, quite frankly! THAT is entitled! That screams entitled, and that they know they can throw a strop and get it/know how to butter you up/guilt trip you/they're in control...

I saved up for like 3 years when i was 12 doing whatever jobs in the village etc I could be it washing cars etc etc to afford a stereo, I would never have asked for a PC/equivalent of £1500, let alone desired it at that age...
At that point I might as well be demanding a car if my expectations are that crazy money wise? ANYONE'S parents would have laughed us out the house if we said we need a £1500 X or Y, they don't they're TWELVE!

Most kids are lucky to be bought a £550 games console/hdtv as a joint present for bday/xmas... Even that is excessive.

If the 17 year old is working towards a mortgage then he has the right mindset and wouldn't even be thinking about gaming, if he's already going for a house, I'd just leave it at that or give him a donation towards the mortgage, not encourage things he's clearly not bothered about if he's set his sights as high as that at 17.

Are you going to buy them cars as well so they don't 'waste their own money' on them as well and pay for the insurance.

I bet they have an iphone/top spec android/tablet/big tv/all the tv subscriptions too. We got jobs at 13 washing dishes or cars or whatever we could to be able to buy a magazine/parts to build up bikes/skateboard... Oh how the other half live!

This all just reeks of being spoilt and entitled.

you sire, a ******* idiot and know nothing about my children. This post just screams of i cant afford to buy my kids decent ****

and yes, bought 17 year old a car and paying for his lessons and first year insurance. will do the same for the second.

maybe i should delay him moving out even more and make him buy his own **** box that will cost a fortune to keep on the road instead?

 

[darrendb]

Nah your thread screams of hand outs/entitlement and having your cake whilst eating it!

What a surprise, or you could just let them earn their own stuff whilst not trying to push them out of the house and do it naturally/vs forcing them to get a mortgage at 17 and leave? Normal people live their life, learn to drive, make friends, experience the best days of their life at that age, move out and rent, get the dream job then buy the house, you want them out the door at 18 with a mortgage, crazy!
Were they allowed to go out of an evening or were you making them learn uni syllabus at 12 too by any chance.

Madness, unsubbed.

I want him out the house at 24 actually and to never have to rent like i did. He is planning on buying a BTL at 19 and then saving for a mortgage for his own house with his girlfriend.

I won't make him waste money on **** i can buying whilst he's doing that or go without like i had to.

if you need a bung for your kids xmas pressies let me know, or maybe go for a gofundme

 

[darrendb]

How is someone going without if they can afford a mortgage, this is literally having your cake and eating it with a poor me entitled spin on it. Madness.

Nah I'll use OnlyFans, and get my parents to buy me stuff at the same time

Bored now, unsubbed.

clearly our views on going without differ.

take care

 

[darrendb]

I find it bonkers that you find a 3900x as being "well overdue" for an upgrade. If the board supports the 5800x3d then get that. Will be more than sufficient for a while to come, especially for games.

What resolution does he play at? Is the current CPU actually holding you back in anyway? What is the reason for the upgrade?

people on here not fans of upgrading hardware? reason is that his games (mostly driving sims) aren't performing as well as we expect them to. Low FPS at 2k. especially given early tests on a machine i just built with a 3070 show marked improvements on performance.

we then reviewed benchmarks between the two builds and compared to comparative builds online and its clear that with an upgrade it will perform much better.

I mean, the other pc I am upgrading has a 1600x in it, that still "works".....

 

[darrendb]

Odd reply. We're trying to help you and provide what we believe to be the best solution, whilst also not having you throw money down the drain. The issue may lie elsewhere and not be related to the parts you want to upgrade.

1. What CPU was in the other test machine? What's the performance difference?
2. Were both PCs using the same in game settings?
3. Can you please clarify what you mean by "low FPS at 2K"? What FPS are you getting vs what you're expecting?
4. Is your GPU being utilised 100% when playing these games?

Apologies, a little touchy given the other fella calling my kids entitled and not being "normal" because I spend a few quid on them on xmas. I also read BeamNG for example is heavily reliant on a decent CPU and decent/fast RAM, especially when adding in traffic)

other machine has a 13600k and ddr5
same graphics settings (don't ask me what, i know nowt about gaming)
so, sub 50 fps when things like traffic, etc added in on above pc, new pc min 65-70 - much smoother game play on this.
he says not, he has stats showing on the game, GPU not near max

should also get a few quid for his old mobo, cpu and ram which will offset a little. especially when the 5800x3d is almost half my intended spend at £320 - I'll get the VAT back so my cart is £650

 

[darrendb]

Thanks. I'm assuming the GPU on the second PC is also not running at maximum either? 75FPS seems low. What's the game? 13600K is much faster than a 3900x, but I don't think it's that much faster than a 5800x3d, but it also depends on the game.

Speaking of second hand, you could even get a 5800x3d on the used market for less than retail.

the GPU on the second pc is a 3700, so would expect less than the 3700ti. I've just spoke to him again and he said that was pushing it adding in heavy traffic and other stuff i didnt understand which he doesnt usually do on his pc. that might be why the fps still seems low. he uses light traffic and still get sub 50 fps and lower quality gameplay. when he sets low/medium traffic on the i5 the FPS shoots up to over 100. Thats with beamng

he also plays assetto corsa i think its called. he says gameplay takes a real hit when adding in mods. we havent tested that on the i5 machine yet.

comparison looks night and day?

UserBenchmark: AMD Ryzen 5 3600XT vs Intel Core i5-13600KF

cpu.userbenchmark.com

 

[darrendb]

Mods can kill a game's performance. Go to this video @ 12:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7-2ArdYvfA&t=724s&ab_channel=HardwareUnboxed

5800x3d tops the charts. Performs nearly twice as fast as a 3950x (which for gaming is equivalent to you sons existing 3900x). 7800x3d will be quicker still, but a 5800x3d will outperform your 13600k according to this chart. You can also see how much the mods are killing performance to what he should be getting. Yes, I'm aware this is 1080p, but that's a better way of testing a CPUs performance anyway. Going up in resolution would put more strain on the GPU and less on the CPU.

Assetto Corsa LOVES 3d v-cache which is what the "x3d" chips have.

Beamng is different. I don't think many people use that as a benchmark tool and it's difficult for me to say whether the 5800x3d would have as big of an impact as with AC, but I'd imagine it would be at least 50-100% faster than the 3900x.

Word of advice - Ignore much of what UserBenchmark has to say. It has not been a reliable place of information for many years. Stick to the known big names (Gamers Nexus, Hardware Unboxed, Guru3d etc).

Final word - My advice, get a 5800x3d 2nd hand. Stick it in and see how you get on. If you want even more performance you can just sell it on again and then upgrade the whole system. Just bear in mind that mods can introduce issues for even the most powerful of systems.

A lot of useful info there, thanks!

I'll take a proper look later when he's finished work and see what he thinks. He's an AMD fanboy so would rather stick AMD. I couldnt care less but could do a full system upgrade cheaper with Intel currently

 

[darrendb]

Rather than spend a grand on this why not go for a 5800X3D + 7900XT

well, current basket is £780 if not going for the AMD chip, less £150 VAT. And less any money i get back for his old board/chip/ram. When you put it like that we aren't talking mega bucks here. Anyone would think I'm getting him a Gucci rebranded CPU lol. Possibly an option though, is the 7900XT a big jump from the 3070ti? It is difficult to know where we get the best performance from, i.e. with the original plan we also we go from ddr4 3200 to ddr5 6600.

So options are:

1. keep same chip/ram/mobo - buy new graphics card
2. upgrade chip/mobo/ram - keep same graphics card for another year (next years xmas present). can sell old stuff to recoup some costs
3. upgrade chip and graphics card - can flog old graphics card to recoup some costs
4. ? ?

And to the others, I wouldn't say i'm anywhere near "the other half" or a "have". We both work, earn reasonable money, spend nothing on the kids other than essentials through the year and treat for birthdays/xmas. Some people choose to spend their cash differently, or maybe don't have as much to spend, some have more, that's life. Let's move on from that chat

 

[darrendb]

Whats in your basket ?

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x WD Black SN770 1TB SSD M.2 2280 NVME PCI-E Gen4 Solid State Drive (WDS100T3 (SKU: HD-58F-WD) = £56.99
• 1 x Intel Core i5-13600KF (Raptor Lake) Socket LGA1700 Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-6B8-IN) = £278.99
• 1 x Asus TUF Gaming Z790-Plus WIFI (LGA 1700) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-6JM-AS) = £239.98
• 1 x Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-52000C32 6600MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (CMH32GX5M2X6600C32) (SKU: MY-4DW-CS) = £200.00

Total: £783.95 (includes delivery: £7.99)​

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[darrendb]

Just wait a couple of weeks til intel 14 gen is announced. Beamng will thank you for it

oh wow just googled and can see its any time in the next few weeks.

how does pricing usually work, i,e. would the 14600k/f be much more than the 13600k/f is now?

Edit, also now wondering if I should return the 13600k I've just bought for the same reason!?

 

[darrendb]

Apparently it's a 15% hike from 13 gen prices.
But actually as you're getting the i5 then just stick with the 13600k.
The core config for the i5 is not changing (6+8)
It's the 14700k that's the most interesting as it's going from 8+8 core config to a 8+12.

well i'm now questioning that due to the above mentions of more cores being better!? Could the i7 be a better choice.

Also just seen that the current gen only supports ddr5 up to 6000mhz, so can save a few quid on the ram to spend on chip. unless that increases with gen 14?

 

[darrendb]

With 13th gen, then for the same money I'd change your spec to:

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Intel Core i7-13700F (Raptor Lake) Socket LGA1700 Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-6BD-IN) = £359.99
• 1 x MSI B760 Gaming Plus WIFI (LGA 1700) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-37M-MS) = £149.99
• 1 x TeamGroup Vulcan 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-44800C36 5600MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (FLBD532G5600HC36BDC01) (SKU: MY-0BB-TG) = £99.94
• 1 x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB M.2 2280 PCI-e 4.0 x4 3D NAND NVMe Solid State Drive (SKU: HD-075-CR) = £110.00

Total: £727.91 (includes delivery: £7.99)​

With AM5:

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Eight Core 5.00GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DT-AM) = £368.99
• 1 x Gigabyte B650 Gaming X AX (Socket AM5) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-5BF-GI) = £189.95
• 1 x TeamGroup Vulcan EXPO 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-44800C40 5600MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (FLABD532G5600HC40BDC01) (SKU: MY-0B3-TG) = £99.94
• 1 x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB M.2 2280 PCI-e 4.0 x4 3D NAND NVMe Solid State Drive (SKU: HD-075-CR) = £110.00

Total: £768.88 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

The 13700 makes more sense for mixed productivity builds, but for only gaming (especially for those games that love the cache) then the 7800X3D.

Faster RAM on Intel can be helpful at lower resolutions, but it wouldn't concern me and I certainly would not pay £200 for 32GB when I could have an i7 or 7800X3D instead.

is there no benefit for general gaming for going for the more expensive z790 / x670 ? is it just overclocking they add?

If that's the case I can reduce the mobo price, reduce RAM price, got 2TB ssd and still reduce total price! regardless whether its the i7 or am5.

 

[darrendb]

The difference between B760 and Z790 in FPS is negligible, so long as the motherboard's VRM doesn't throttle the CPU, which can happen with low-end boards and high-end CPUs, though less so when gaming.

Tbh, the undervolting features of Z790 are probably used more than the overclocking is, since they rag these CPUs out of the box nowadays.

this would be my cart now, pending 14700 release (I like the vengeance RGB, this speed seems to make most sense price wise):

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Intel Core i7-13700KF (Raptor Lake) Socket LGA1700 Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-6B7-IN) = £379.99
• 1 x Corsair Vengeance RGB EXPO 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C36 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (CMH32GX5M2D6000Z36) (SKU: MY-4DD-CS) = £149.99
• 1 x MSI B760 Gaming Plus WIFI (LGA 1700) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-37M-MS) = £149.99
• 1 x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB M.2 2280 PCI-e 4.0 x4 3D NAND NVMe Solid State Drive (SKU: HD-075-CR) = £109.99

Total: £797.95 (includes delivery: £7.99)​

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Surely this, then next year a new GPU, should set him up for years!? His xmas money goes down after turning 18 next year lol​