Lost - Should I have finished it?

Can i swear at Damon Lindelof in this thread?



:mad:

why not everyone else seems to have a completely irrational hatred towards him, even though on lost he was only one of many writers, and one of ten producers, so yeah, its obviously all his fault lol. Why not chuck JJ Abrams in to the hatemix aswell.

I have to say i really loved lost, but I could tell reasonably early on, around season 3 this was a show about the characters story's and an emotional story, I never did get bogged down in needing answers because the explanations would only ever be lame anyway, it was all just a great backdrop for the character story's to unfold upon, explaining it would just have weakened the mystery, and provided more things for people to pick apart and find problems with, and at the end of the day, what difference would it make if they did, it wouldnt add anything to the real story, the characters emotional story's.
 

The network were getting antsy with ratings falling since the high bar of season 1. So the showrunners of Lost outlined to the network execs how they were going to end it. They proposed in 2007, shortened seasons through to season 6 to end the series. This set themselves a limited time to complete the series whilst cramming as much they can during that time.

Season 4 had 14 episodes due to writer's strike, whilst seasons 5 had 17 episodes and season 6 had 18 episodes. The normal season for network television in the US is about 22-26 episodes.
 
I have to say i really loved lost, but I could tell reasonably early on, around season 3 this was a show about the characters story's and an emotional story, I never did get bogged down in needing answers because the explanations would only ever be lame anyway, it was all just a great backdrop for the character story's to unfold upon, explaining it would just have weakened the mystery, and provided more things for people to pick apart and find problems with, and at the end of the day, what difference would it make if they did, it wouldnt add anything to the real story, the characters emotional story's.

I was similarly happy to accept that the show wasn't going to focus on giving any real answers with regards to the island.

But even so, Lost went from having fantastic characters with interesting stories and strong emotional ties - to being - I don't even know how to describe it - just a mess. Way too many boring, pointless characters - many of whom were actually just annoying. The best bit of the show became hugely watered down in the latter series, which really detracted from it.

There's just no way you can compare the early series of Lost, with the latter ones - even on an emotional or character-based level. The whole standard of the scripts and the direction of the show plummeted (with a very small number of stand-out exceptions).

Sometimes I wonder if some people really realised how good it was and how good it could have been.
 
I was similarly happy to accept that the show wasn't going to focus on giving any real answers with regards to the island.

But even so, Lost went from having fantastic characters with interesting stories and strong emotional ties - to being - I don't even know how to describe it - just a mess. Way too many boring, pointless characters - many of whom were actually just annoying. The best bit of the show became hugely watered down in the latter series, which really detracted from it.

There's just no way you can compare the early series of Lost, with the latter ones - even on an emotional or character-based level. The whole standard of the scripts and the direction of the show plummeted (with a very small number of stand-out exceptions).

Sometimes I wonder if some people really realised how good it was and how good it could have been.

fair enough tbh, i wouldnt disagree, not because i agree either but rather because i just enjoyed it as it was, didnt really find it a mess, didnt really think about what could have been done better, just took it as it was I was along for the ride and loved it. I have started watching it again and no doubt i'll have a more objective view of it afterwords but it wont change the fact that first time round i got caught up in it and enjoyed the whole lot.
 
Can i swear at Damon Lindelof in this thread?



:mad:

Yes, he's a terrible writer. But writing by committee helped hide many of the flaws in his writing which are now becoming apparent in the films that he's written since.
 
Yes, he's a terrible writer. But writing by committee helped hide many of the flaws in his writing which are now becoming apparent in the films that he's written since.

as I said I find this kind of opinion of him somewhat irrational, he's written or co-written some of the best episodes of lost, and he also wasn't the only writer on any of the films he's done since, so to attribute everything you don't like to him seems somewhat short-sighted. For those that had multiple writers how do you know what he was or wasn't responsible for, perhaps he's responsible for the things you liked as much as those you didn't, or perhaps even the things you didn't like were nothing to do with him. How do you know things you didn't like weren't caused by editing, or directors choices, both of which can take decent writing and turn is sour by removing scenes or making last minute changes etc.

Now I'm not trying to defend the guy because I will admit I have no idea which bits of the things I've seen in which he was involved were down to him or not, I wouldn't pretend to, but its just an objective point of view. After all he is a highly successful writer and producer, anyway you are of course entitled to your opinion and I wont argue with it, other than to ask, are you sure your not just treating him as a scapegoat. It seems to me its possibly just an internet bandwagon of negativity that people jump on without actually thinking about it.
 
He was one of the showrunners, which meant he had final say on scripts that weren't written by him and also dictated the overall plot and character arcs of the series. He was responsible for this alongside Jeffery Liber and JJ Abrams.

Television episodes on US TV are written in a writers room, with many writers contributing to each episode, and then the writer who came up with the original idea, or wrote most of the episode is then credited as writer for that episode.

But as things stand, as a television writer, where the techniques and style are markedly different from film, he's not too bad.

How do I know the things I don't like about his writing are down to him? Lets look at the facts.

He wrote Prometheus. The idea for the film was by Jon Spaihts. If you look around the web you'll find his original script. Lindelof not only re-wrote it, but his inferior skills, ineffectual and poor dialogue writing, and penchant for assuming extra diagetic knowledge is a worthwhile endeavor in a film when a writer really should be providing more exposition, higher quality dialogue and not treating an entire film like it is simply another end of season cliffhanger are what made Prometheus so bad.

He was one of a triumvirate of terrible scribes who were responsible for Star Trek Into Darkness. Another film which is full of trite, cliched action movie dialogue, plot holes you could successful navigate the entire armada of Starfleet vessels through and boring set pieces (which are only actually good because of the director, cinematographer, editor and CGI team, not because of how they were written in the script).

He is also responsible for the final third of World War Z. Which is a COMPLETE tonal shift from the rest of the film, and is so full of awful dialogue that we actually get the rather brilliant Peter Capaldi say "He's walking right past them - he's just walking right past them!"; this is just one example of the completely inept third act of WWZ.

Granted, WWZ is just a poor film even before his section comes into, but he certainly didn't improve it by lending his hand to it.

So when it comes to film, he hasn't covered himself in glory.

He is a pretty decent TV writer, but that's because that format and medium allow for certain things that film doesn't allow for; you can employ cliffhangers, you can engineer characters and their backstory over the course of multiple episodes, allowing for deeper interaction between them and their environments, a TV writer is given more space and time to make characters believable. Some writers are more suited to it than others.

As a film writer, you can tell he doesn't know how to do that in a short space of time. That's why we get one dimensional characters in Prometheus, because he's not capable of rendering fully formed characters from scratch in the space of two hours, and seems to be quite poor it making us feel emotionally connected to them. He has had slightly more success on Star Trek Into Darkness and WWZ, but for the former he was dealing with two other writers and a bunch of character that we were already introduced to, and in the latter he was only employed to write the ending so really he had a lot less work to do.

My biggest issue is however that good writing doesn't just reflect our lives back to us like a mirror, it talks to us about something deeper, something unsaid, something knowing about the human condition which we feel deeply within ourselves. Lindelof's writing is like a mirror, it lacks depth. One can engineer emotional depth over the course of a season of television, but not every writer is blessed with the ability to say something meaningful about the human condition. When Lindelof is on his own, he's clearly one of those who lacks that gift.
 
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Well I dare say your opinion is far better formed than most if not nearly all of the lindelof bashers lol. I haven't yet seen star trek into darkness or the war z so can't comment. I have read some of spaits Script for Prometheus and found it to be terrible and thought lindelof just managed to make it less bad, I am not convinced that some of that is not just down to what he had to work with but i guess on the flip side he should have been able to do more with it at his level, also some poor directing choices and some very very bad editing choices we're I felt as big if not bigger contributors to the flaws in that film, there was a lot of scenes cut, and therefore bits of script that even lindelof did not want removed that would have improved, but not completely solved some of these flaws, but I do agree on the lack of connection to many of the characters, I enjoyed that film for other reasons though, but being invested in the characters themselves wasn't one of them, David being the only real highlight on that front. I think your probably right though on him being a better tv writer than film writer, have no doubt when I get round to seeing star trek into darkness I will enjoy but I'm not expecting it to be because of a faultless scripts for sure. I also didn't even make it through half of cowboys and aliens!
 
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Aye the editing was particularly poor in Prometheus. I've noticed that in quite a lot of Hollywood blockbusters over the past few years, actually. It's weird. I think it might have to do with the demands of the industry and the short timescales they have to work with. Having a release date set sometimes two years in advance really puts the pressure on everyone who works on a film. I think the direction was pretty good though. As ever, on a Ridley Scott sci-fi film production design was an utter triumph.

I think we've talked Prometheus to death at this point though! Haha.
 
Yeah it was just the choices he made when the ship fell and they ran directly away from it, explainable in that it's something people really do when they panic, but I think they should have known better as to how the audience would receive that. As well as toning down the visuals on the snake so it wasn't so obviously dangerous at first, as well as leaving in the scene where the biologist handles the small version(something lindelof wanted left in), two fairly minor things that would go a long way to improving things without any script alterations. I do feel some directorial and editing choices can greatly affect how the writing is perceived. Anyway yeah done to death lol.

I do find editing very poor these days and good pacing in general seems a rare thing, and is something tv shows tend to do better than films.

Anyway back on the topic of lost are the shorts they made after the show had finished worth finding to watch, i'm not sure what they are called but are supposed to tidy up a few loose ends?
 
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Season 3, 4 and 5 were some of the best TV out there. Then they dropped the ball badly on the 6th and final season

I strongly disagree with this. They went bat**** insane with the ideas in the later seasons, clearly dragging out the series as they went along. The execution was pretty bad and the final outcome different than what most expected.

As have been said multiple times after the series ended, it was never a show that had primary focus on the Island, but instead it was about the characters and their journey through life.

And here's the explanation to the Polar Bears mystery, which appeared in the post-series Epilogue here:


I think it's safe to watch for people who've already seen the first few seasons.

And by the way, most "mysteries" in the show were answered, one way or another, so if you have any specific questions, I'd be glad to dig out some answers for you or anyone here.
 
I ended up skipping a lot of the scenes that viewed through flashbacks. Every episode they would have flash backs of the characters past before the island. I would skip as in not focus on those parts or skip past in some cases, some of these scenes as i was on the pc and watched some of the seasons all in a row over a few days. The last few seasons when they were off the island, i thought some of that story was boring and ended up skipping past a lot of it. Which was the main part of the story. Some of the last seasons was very good but there was also a lot of boring episodes.

I watched most of the seasons on dvdrip quality and i have the blurays but have not rewatched. I might at some point in the future.
 
I got sucked into this when it aired.

The first two seasons I was HOOKED and nothing would stop me watching it.

I can only imagine that the end was written by a child in crayon, disappointed wasnt even the word :(
 
Despite the disappointing ending, it is still a great great series.

Great cast, good involving storyline. A cleaver story telling mechanic.

World class show, but set out to be bigger than it's boots and ultimately fell short because of it.

For closures sake I would watch it to the end.

The best of lost is the first 3 series. After that, it starts dragging on and getting a little bit silly.

Still the Penny and Desmond story line was just beautiful. Yes I did cry! :p

And some of the shots of Kate in pj's or knickers.... is worth it alone! :eek:
 
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