Lowering 1st Floor.

Traffic_Warden

Traffic_Warden

Traffic_Warden

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Hey GD.

Looking for a bit of advice on lowering the 1st Floor in my Stone built house.

Currently ive knocked through to the connecting stable/barn to make a large kitchen and upstair ensuite/master bedroom. But not knowing untill i had knocked through that the floor level was actually a good 4-5 inch higher in the Stable/Barn.

What i would like to know is the best ways to lower the floor in a stone built house . Obviously if it was brick or breeze block i could easily use joist hangars etc but with the stone not being a level base i don't think this is an option. I also had an idea of putting a wall plate in and bolting through the supporting/outside wall (2ft thick min) and using a resin compound does this seem ok ? Ive been trying to do some research online but no set good answers come up.

Here are some pictures to help.
 
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Hyburnate said:
This + If it's not done properly you're going to end up chucking more money at it than you want too.
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never mind that, if he doesn't have the correct permission in place for altering structural elements then he wont be able to sell his house until its been passed off. I had a job recently where the client had completed works over 10 yrs ago without a warrant and was now selling a house worth 1/2 a million and we had to rectify the issues to get a warrant in place for the sale to go through. One huge headache for all involved!
 
Traffic_Warden said:
I didn't ask for you to tell me 'Get a Structural Engineer Derp'

Why am i doing stuff i randomly read online? I asked for advice.
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here comes some 'herp derp' regardless of whether you like it or not. Structural engineers know what they're talking about. As an Architectural Technician I cant tell you the finer details, but removing a structural element weakens the overall structure of your building. Done incorrectly the walls of your house could bow out causing a collapse (extreme case). Solutions I've experienced are putting up a new timber frame inside and bearing first floor joists onto the frame or as you suggest in your op bolting a timber plate through the external walls then joist hanging off that. Without the appropriate technical knowledge no one here can give you the advice you're looking for.
 
Derek W said:
here comes some 'herp derp' regardless of whether you like it or not. Structural engineers know what they're talking about. As an Architectural Technician I cant tell you the finer details, but removing a structural element weakens the overall structure of your building. Done incorrectly the walls of your house could bow out causing a collapse (extreme case). Solutions I've experienced are putting up a new timber frame inside and bearing first floor joists onto the frame or as you suggest in your op bolting a timber plate through the external walls then joist hanging off that. Without the appropriate technical knowledge no one here can give you the advice you're looking for.
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Thats the advice i wanted , Thanks.
 
You could bolt a wallplate to the wall & fix joist hangers from it to support the joists.(usual way)
Other way is to chop out holes in wall to take joist, but you need to bed a concrete pad for joist to sit on (I use concrete lintel cut in to sections)

One point is barn listed, second point I would seek advice before starting work, as Derek W & others have said, old walls can hide nasty surprises.
 
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Traffic_Warden said:
Thats the advice i wanted , Thanks.
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the advice you were looking for? That a structural engineer / getting appropriate technical information for your job is the best advice. Not a problem.

All the other stuff i mentioned were possible solutions, and there are more available but since i know nothing of your job other than a couple of photos I would disregard them completely. :)
 
Your idea is sound in principle. You need to do some structural checks on size for the wall plate and through bolts.

To avoid drilling through the walls, you could grout steel sections into pockets cut into the inner wall face to support a wall plate.

Lateral steel ties, angle or bar could be used in the depth of the floor to prevent the walls spreading although if the difference in floor is only 100-150mm this may not affect the loads on the wall to much.

Consult on the calculations required, unless you have a knowledge of the structural capacities of timber and steel. A useful program for design of resin and bolted anchors can be downloaded free from Hilti GB ltd.
 
This is going to end very badly, I think everyone should stop offering up possible solution as the OP seems like he is going to follow all of those, rather the following the best advice given which is get a structural engineer in, you know OP a PROFESSIONAL who will know EXACTLY what to do.
 
Derek W said:
the advice you were looking for? That a structural engineer / getting appropriate technical information for your job is the best advice. Not a problem.

All the other stuff i mentioned were possible solutions, and there are more available but since i know nothing of your job other than a couple of photos I would disregard them completely. :)
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I will go down the Structural Engineer route,

I was saying thanks for actually answering my OP in general.


nkata said:
Your idea is sound in principle. You need to do some structural checks on size for the wall plate and through bolts.

To avoid drilling through the walls, you could grout steel sections into pockets cut into the inner wall face to support a wall plate.

Lateral steel ties, angle or bar could be used in the depth of the floor to prevent the walls spreading although if the difference in floor is only 100-150mm this may not affect the loads on the wall to much.

Consult on the calculations required, unless you have a knowledge of the structural capacities of timber and steel. A useful program for design of resin and bolted anchors can be downloaded free from Hilti GB ltd.
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Thanks.
 
The question needs to be asked, what's the problem with a step?. Different levels add character to layouts especially in older properties. The implications of lowering youur floor are so many, from reducing the head height in the room below to increasing the window cill heights to uncomfortable levels then there's the costs involved, none of which will be recouped.
 
LOAM said:
The question needs to be asked, what's the problem with a step?. Different levels add character to layouts especially in older properties. The implications of lowering youur floor are so many, from reducing the head height in the room below to increasing the window cill heights to uncomfortable levels then there's the costs involved, none of which will be recouped.
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This

Is it essential to have it level?
 
First get a engineer to design something.

You could look at the following

Knock out stone / stones on either side, build appropriate pad stone to level out between, feed in steels or timbers at new lower level, set fix and provide lateral restraint, re fit stones to external and remove upper joists.

Or just put up with a step which if you have the head room etc is what I'd do.
 
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