M135i for £299 a month?

[TW]Fox;27249416 said:
There is probably a deposit on top but even if not its hardly cheap, 14 grand and you are left with nothing at the end.
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Please. Really getting bored of that sort of response!

Not everyone wants to be stuck with a car for the rest of their life.
 
DAIR said:
Please. Really getting bored of that sort of response!

Not everyone wants to be stuck with a car for the rest of their life.
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Some of us are just ballers and can afford a decent lease car and cristal flowing from the heavens :D

Respec'
 
DAIR said:
Please. Really getting bored of that sort of response!
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He's asking how the deals work. If you don't like the responses you don't need to read them, especially if you are not even the OP.

Not everyone wants to be stuck with a car for the rest of their life.
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Yes, because that's exactly how it works, if you don't lease a car monthly you are stuck with it for ever! You are actually more 'stuck' with a car if you lease it because you've got it for the term, whereas if you have financed it in another way or purchased it you can move it on if you don't want it.
 
DAIR said:
Please. Really getting bored of that sort of response!

Not everyone wants to be stuck with a car for the rest of their life.
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Your argument is completely back to front. 47 months is a pretty long time to be 'stuck' with a car to be honest. I'd much rather the freedom to be able to chop and change when I want, I think the longest I've ever owned the same car was 3 years (that's 36 months) and by the end I was absolutely bored of it. If it made financial sense then it might be worth it, but it doesn't seem to in this case - your repose certainly hasn't convinced me.
 
[TW]Fox;27254679 said:
He's asking how the deals work. If you don't like the responses you don't need to read them, especially if you are not even the OP.



Yes, because that's exactly how it works, if you don't lease a car monthly you are stuck with it for ever! You are actually more 'stuck' with a car if you lease it because you've got it for the term, whereas if you have financed it in another way or purchased it you can move it on if you don't want it.
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Sorry it just seemed as though you were taking a dig at that method of purchase/hire.

It's no different from buying a new car outright from new and then selling it 4 years later down the line for around 50% of its original value... You'd be no better or worse off.
 
DAIR said:
It's no different from buying a new car outright from new and then selling it 4 years later down the line for around 50% of its original value... You'd be no better or worse off.
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Of course its different – if you’ve purchased it you can get rid of it after 2 years. Or 3 years. Or keep it for 7 years. Or whatever – the point being you have total flexibility because it belongs to you and is yours to do as you wish with. The other key way it’s different is that even if you look at it over exactly 4 years generally the cost of a lease will be higher than pretty much any other way of funding the vehicles purchase over that 4 years. Leasing is the most expensive way of running a car (Unless you get lucky and avail yourself of one of the handful of bonkers deals that sometimes come up)

A 4 year lease locks you into a car for 4 years and rewards you for that by being probably the most expensive way of driving that car for 4 years.

In this particular case it’s at least £14,000 for 4 years (No mention is made of any deposit but I bet there is one on top). It is somewhat unlikely that a smartly purchased M135i, even if you bought brand new, would lose £14k over 4 years. You can get them new for circa £27k and a 60 plate 135i still costs rather more than £13k which bodes well for the M135i residually.

The only people for whom this deal is ‘right’ are those who have no money to buy a car but can probably find 300 quid a month to meet the payments. The worrying thing about that is if there is that little slack in the finances is a 4 year commitment to spend £14k really a great idea?

You of all people know what its like to buy a car and then decide that actually you don’t like it or are bored of it – you’ve just swapped out of your M135i into a Mini. Because you didn’t lease your M135i for 4 years you could do this. If you’d have leased it on a 48 month lease you’d be stuck with it still…

Too many people get suckered into huge commitments with limited flexibility and then regret it months or years down the line. They ALL argue it’s the right thing to do and affordable and what they want on Day 1 but we’ve had so many threads on here over the years where a few years later they want out of the car or whatever and end up losing a massive pile of money in the process.

I have absolutely nothing at all against financing vehicles if that’s the most appropriate way – but the crucial thing is to make sure you are aware of how every single method of funding works, what the benefits and disadvantages are of each and crucially NOT what the monthly payment is but what the total cost of ownership is. Only then can you make an informed decision and 9 times out of 10 that informed decision will not be a lease agreement.
 
The way I always look at these deals is cost per mile which works out around 36p/mile + fuel assuming 10k/year and no other costs. That seems very expensive to me. If you really want an M135i, why not get an 18 month old one for 8k more and own it at the end/have the ability to change cars when you want?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201410318632538
I'd anticipate that being worth somewhere around £13-14k after another 4 years, so a much cheaper proposition.
 
I’m playing around with some napkin figures as I'm waiting for the first of the 3 year old M135i, that's when I was looking to bite (i.e. November 2015), hoping I can pick one up for £18k.

Santander do some favourable loans, the interest rates are very good. In the example above, £18k over 36 months will attract £1,455 in interest, hence a total cost of £19,455.48 and £540.00 PCM payments.

When they are six years old I'm going to assume they'll still sell on a bad day for £8k, so that’s an £11k ‘loss’ to depreciation. This creates a £305.55 cost per month. Add warranty costs onto that (I’m guessing £50 a month? I’ll let someone correct me if I’m out)… and suddenly* a lease doesn't look too bad (except for the limitations of the lease of course).

Even if we say that the M135i is worth £10k on it's 6th year, that's £250.00 to depreciation every month, added with the hassle of and maintaining a used car and eventually selling it.

Maybe I should wait until they are 6 years old :D

*I'm not advocating any which way that people wish to finance purchases.
 
wingman said:
When they are six years old I'm going to assume they'll still sell on a bad day for £8k, so that’s an £11k ‘loss’ to depreciation. This creates a £305.55 cost per month. Add warranty costs onto that (I’m guessing £50 a month? I’ll let someone correct me if I’m out)… and suddenly* a lease doesn't look too bad (except for the limitations of the lease of course).

Even if we say that the M135i is worth £10k on it's 6th year, that's £250.00 to depreciation every month, added with the hassle of and maintaining a used car
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Why is that saying 'lease is good'? It's surely showing the potential benefits of a new car, not necessarily the way of funding it. There are other ways to get a new car than lease it you know - you could even, shock, buy it at a nicely discounted price.

Plus on a 4 year lease guess who is responsible for everything that goes wrong with it in the 4th year, just like a used car? Yup, thats right, the driver...

All your numbers tell me is that you should buy that 18 month old one for £21k. Why wait for one twice the age at only 3k less?

Your numbers just seem horribly flawed to me and I'm not even sure of the point you are trying to make. Where does £8k even come from? You can value the likely residual of a 6 year old 135i right now - go find how much a 58 plate 135i costs. They start at about £14k - £6000 more than your made up number!

On an £18k purchase that would represent a loss of £4k over 3 years or just over £100 a month. But we are getting lost in irrelevancies now because a 3 year old car isn't a brand new car and 'Leasing sucks because a 3 year old car costs less' just diverts the message and is easily argued against by the 'its not a new car' point.

Comparisons against leasing should focus on brand new or nearly new alternatives. Which handily in this particular example still shows that 300 quid a month for 48 months to borrow a 1 Series kinda sucks.
 
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I do understand there's various ways of financing a car.

One year to maintain a car is less than three years out of warranty though, and that one year is at 4 years old, rather than 4, 5 and 6 years old respectively.

I did put "napkin figures" at the very start of my post, it certainly wasn't an accurate depreciation book.

Perhaps my residual values there are way off? I don't know, my crystal ball has broke so I'm a little out of sorts at the moment ;)

I was also just comparing for my own sake on the financials. If they are indeed worth £14k at 6 years old, where do I sign? :)

Plus, I couldn't find any 1 series hatchbacks at 6 years old with 135i engines, I perhaps need to look further? The coupes are holding their value better but that's not a fair comparison.

Here is a top end 1 series with really low miles for the year at £9.5k. I said, "even if we say it's worth £10k". Weren't these £30k back then?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201411128927815/sort/default/radius/1501/quicksearch/true/make/bmw/quantity-of-doors/3/model/1_series/usedcars/fuel-type/petrol/postcode/wr99ea/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/engine-size-cars/3l_to_3-9l/page/1?logcode=p
 
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As Fox says above, and previously, clearly leasing is NOT the way to buy this car.

According to Broadspeed, you can pick them up, new for £28,530. That's for the auto mind. The manual would likely be cheaper, but if you can get the ZF auto in these, why wouldn't you?

Anyway, the cheapest 4 year old 135i on autotrader just now is around £18k (with near 10k per annum average). So £10,530 depreciation over 48 months? Round that down to a clean £10k and the depreciation will cost you £208 per month. Of course, you then need to consider interest payments and stuff on top of that, and if you were to finance via PCP they would likely claim a circa £13k value after 4 years (thus leaving, hopefully, some value left in the car).

But, anyway you cut it, leasing the car locks you in, AND makes you pay for the privilege. So not ideal.

/edit: 1 series coupes with the 135i at 6 years are as low as £13k. I doubt there would be a £5k price difference between a coupe and a hatchback.
 
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xs2man said:
/edit: 1 series coupes with the 135i at 6 years are as low as £13k. I doubt there would be a £5k price difference between a coupe and a hatchback.
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Probably not, but even if we say £3k difference to £10k, my figures still come back to £250.00 depreciation each month, chuck on £50 warranty and we are back up to the cost of the lease. (Help me out here, I don't know how much the warranty would even be?)

It's an immaterial difference.

I think leasing is daft, and buying discounted new is a fine and dandy idea. Not sure why my comments are getting jumped on though :cool:

I get the limitations and the structure of the lease, but arguing the financials isn't quite so clear cut.
 
wingman said:
Probably not, but even if we say £3k difference to £10k, my figures still come back to £250.00 depreciation each month, chuck on £50 warranty and we are back up to the cost of the lease. (Help me out here, I don't know how much the warranty would even be?)

It's an immaterial difference.

I think leasing is daft, and buying discounted new is a fine and dandy idea. Not sure why my comments are getting jumped on though :cool:

I get the limitations and the structure of the lease, but arguing the financials isn't quite so clear cut.
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Why are you chucking on £50 per month warranty? It's a brand new car, so comes with 3 years warranty. So yeah, it'll require 12 months warranty for the last year (assuming you keep it the full 4 years, an option you wont have with a lease).

But maybe you are still stuck on buying an older car, despite having been shown that a new car can be had for pretty much what you are budgeting for an older motor. Although I could well imagine that the warranty on a 1 series will be substantially lower than £50 per month (I was ~£250 per year on my 335d).
 
xs2man said:
Why are you chucking on £50 per month warranty? It's a brand new car, so comes with 3 years warranty. So yeah, it'll require 12 months warranty for the last year (assuming you keep it the full 4 years, an option you wont have with a lease).

But maybe you are still stuck on buying an older car, despite having been shown that a new car can be had for pretty much what you are budgeting for an older motor. Although I could well imagine that the warranty on a 1 series will be substantially lower than £50 per month (I was ~£250 per year on my 335d).
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Sheeeessh... I'm not stuck on buying an old car, I was simply making comparisons.

My example was still based around the value of a 6 year old M135i, hence the warranty costs are added on. I also explicitly said I didn't know the cost of such warranty.

The whole exercise for me was working out the different ways of buying an M135i and various costs.
 
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