Mac users' elitism

[PhilthyPhil]

Good for you. I bought my MacBook because I didn't want a 15" screen (the extra cost to the manufacturer is really quite insignificant, anyway, and throwing in a larger screen actually makes it easier to throw in extra hardware). Is your 15" laptop a widescren, though? Does it have a glossy screen (comes down to personal preference, but I love mine)? A built-in 640x480 webcam with a great application for taking pictures with it? Built-in WiFi and Bluetooth, with full WPA2 compatability out of the box? A DVD writer? Gigabit ethernet? Optical audio input/output? Firewire? No worries about malware/viruses? A beautiful Operating System? Loads of incredible applications out of the box? A pleasurable setup process? No need to defrag your hard drive every month? Is it less than 1" thick, and does it look gorgeous?

I agree it is probably more expensive to make a 13" laptop than a 15" one, but I would find 13" too small anyway (again this is down to personal preference). Of those things the only thing it doesn't have is a webcam, which is not something I want anyway

 

[JRS]

I think Tim Buckley had it right....

And for the record - I've used Macs, and each time I came away wanting to commit acts of violence upon everyone involved in their creation. I'm yet to come across one that you can actually do any kind of CAD work with. The last time I tried to use one, I was running VectorWorks (a CAD package) on it. I stoppped counting how many times it crashed after about twenty. They're fine for Word processing, photo and video editing, and general home computer tasks. But asking one to do anything remotely complicated in my experience is a Bad Idea™, and will only lead to the Mac being launched through the nearest window.

Now that they have Intel chipped Macs I might see how one copes with a Virtual PC/VMWare virtual machine running XP, and an AutoCAD install. Maybe that'd be an improvement over OSX + VectorWorks.

 

[Jet]

Eh? Yes you get Centrino laptops for hundreds less than Mac laptops, and most if not all PCs are bundled with OEM software like PowerDVD or whatever.

PowerDVD, is that it? After the list Al has provided that comes nowhere near.

Also, it's rare that laptops have built in Bluetooth and many don't have built in WiFi. Seen many with a built in webcam?

How many allow you to customise before you buy? Not many.

 

[dirtydog]

PowerDVD, is that it? After the list Al has provided that comes nowhere near.

Also, it's rare that laptops have built in Bluetooth and many don't have built in WiFi. Seen many with a built in webcam?

How many allow you to customise before you buy? Not many.

Built-in wifi is common on PC laptops, most have it now. I don't know about bluetooth, is it something many people use? Probably not. Webcam? Gimmick. Customise laptop before you buy? Yes, that is something the store whose prices I quoted earlier does allow.

 

[Will_3rd]

Vendor lock-in screws us over in all walks of life (right down to my razor blades) though so I can't hold it against Microsoft.

The vendor lock-in stuff used to be kinda true in the PowerPC days, but any program you have in Windows is available for Mac or often as a free open source alternative.

 

[clv101]

People keep saying this, yet the facts don't bear it out... which leaves me feeling rather confused.

They absolutly do! I spent ages looking at laptop specs and chose the MacBook:

2.0GHz C2D, 2GB, 80GB, DVD-Writer etc, full spec here: specs
For £840 inc (with the HE discount I admit)

Compare that to the Windows laptops and they are around the same £800-900 mark. The £600-700 windows machines just aren't the same spec.

 

[Mr_White]

Now that they have Intel chipped Macs I might see how one copes with a Virtual PC/VMWare virtual machine running XP, and an AutoCAD install. Maybe that'd be an improvement over OSX + VectorWorks.

Why would you want to run a virtual PC when you can just install XP and dual boot, or use parralels if you want both at the same time, heck, you don't even have to have OS X installed if you just want to use XP, sort of defeats a big part of buying a mac if you did that though

 

[dirtydog]

They absolutly do! I spent ages looking at laptop specs and chose the MacBook:

2.0GHz C2D, 2GB, 80GB, DVD-Writer etc, full spec here: specs
For £840 inc (with the HE discount I admit)

Compare that to the Windows laptops and they are around the same £800-900 mark. The £600-700 windows machines just aren't the same spec.

Are comparing Apple prices with a discount, to Windows laptops without one?

I am well acquainted with Apple specs and prices, and those of the largest PC seller in the world, and the latter's prices are much cheaper for the same or better spec so I don't know what you're on about - seriously.

 

[Will_3rd]

I agree it is probably more expensive to make a 13" laptop than a 15" one, but I would find 13" too small anyway (again this is down to personal preference). Of those things the only thing it doesn't have is a webcam, which is not something I want anyway

People/Professionals are screaming out for a 12" Macbook Pro, the 12" Powerbook G4 was the best selling Pro Laptop that Apple made for many years

 

[NathanE]

Are comparing Apple prices with a discount, to Windows laptops without one?

I also have to wonder if it's fair comparing a OS from 2001 to an OS from 2005?

And why is it that Mac users see preinstalled software bloat as a bonus. Whereas Windows users would scoff at such an idea?

 

[Jet]

Built-in wifi is common on PC laptops, most have it now. I don't know about bluetooth, is it something many people use? Probably not. Webcam? Gimmick. Customise laptop before you buy? Yes, that is something the store whose prices I quoted earlier does allow.

WiFi is not that common. I'm looking on purple and hardly any have it.

Bluetooth? Doing anything with your mobile phone? Unless you want to pay extra for a pc cable or a card reader. Getting pictures off, transferring ringtones?

Webcam isn't a gimmick for many people. How about using my webcam to scan barcodes from my CD's and DVD's to catalogue? Definitley a gimmick lol, but good fun.

Still waiting for the software on top of PowerDVD...

Forgot about Frontrow as well. Completely free unlike Media Centre which you many get as an operating system but probably won't.

 

[Jet]

I also have to wonder if it's fair comparing a OS from 2001 to an OS from 2005?

And why is it that Mac users see preinstalled software bloat as a bonus. Whereas Windows users would scoff at such an idea?

Not bloat at all. You can decide whether to install it and should you want to uninstall later just drag the icon to the trash. Try dragging the icon to the trash in Windows and see what happens. You'll have got rid of the icon. But that's about it.

 

[clv101]

Are comparing Apple prices with a discount, to Windows laptops without one?

I am well acquainted with Apple specs and prices, and those of the largest PC seller in the world, and the latter's prices are much cheaper for the same or better spec so I don't know what you're on about - seriously.

This is the sort of stuff I was looking at.

HP Pavilion dv6174ea Centrino Core 2 Duo T5500 2048MB 120GB XP Media
£866.98 inc vat
Only 1.66GHz!

Sony Vaio BX396VP Core 2 Duo T5600
£887.39 inc vat
But with only 1GB and the 1.83GHz CPU, heavier too

Toshiba Satellite Pro A120 Core2Duo 2GHz 1GB 100GB DVD±RW XPPro
£754.98 inc vat
Only 1GB

They do have 15” screens rather than 13” but given the res is the same it’s just a waste of size, weight and battery power. You can’t see any more on the screen. 1280x800 on 13” works really well.

 

[Al Vallario]

People keep saying this, yet the facts don't bear it out... which leaves me feeling rather confused.

Just threw together a Dell system (I assume there is nothing wrong with mentioning this?).

1.83GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 1GB PC6400 DDR2 SDRAM, integrated WiFi and Bluetooth, 1 year basic support, all the same as the MacBook specification I mentioned earlier in the thread. No Vista update was included. The screen is a 15.4" glossy widescreen, but only has the same resolution (1280x800) as the 13" on the MacBook – a resolution bump will cost you £50 more. There is an 80GB HDD instead of the 60GB in the MacBook, but this is largely insignificant in the larger scheme of things. It also has a 128MB ATi Mobility Radeon X1300, but I doubt that is going to be much use for gaming over the integrated graphics in the MacBook.

There is no webcam, no gigabit ethernet port (10/100 instead), no optical audio input/output, the bare minimum software pre-installed, it's 50% thicker than the MacBook and looks 200% uglier... and somewhere along the line it will probably explode

It came to £822.37 (~£22 more expensive than the MacBook) with VAT and shipping (as did the MacBook). There are no Higher Education discounts.

Edit: Bare in mind this is a system coming from a massive company, too, who shift far more hardware than Apple and are therefore able to offer stuff much cheaper if they want to

 

[JRS]

Why would you want to run a virtual PC when you can just install XP and dual boot, or use parralels if you want both at the same time

I could. Plenty of options regarding how I do it.

heck, you don't even have to have OS X installed if you just want to use XP, sort of defeats a big part of buying a mac if you did that though

Well, seeing as how Autodesk don't make a version of AutoCAD for Mac OSX as far as I know....and seeing as how I spend half of my life working with, poking at and generally experimenting with AutoCAD....

And none of the alternatives are anywhere near as good as AutoCAD unfortunately. VectorWorks is about the best of them, and is still rubbish in comparison.

 

[PhilthyPhil]

WiFi is not that common. I'm looking on purple and hardly any have it.

Probably because it is so standard they don't mention it.

 

[NathanE]

Not bloat at all. You can decide whether to install it and should you want to uninstall later just drag the icon to the trash. Try dragging the icon to the trash in Windows and see what happens. You'll have got rid of the icon. But that's about it.

This is what I'm talking about. A subtle and pathetic little dig at Windows. OK so the operating systems are different in the way you uninstall a program. Get over it.

 

[Mr_White]

I also have to wonder if it's fair comparing a OS from 2001 to an OS from 2005?

What do you mean?

Windows XP was released October 25th 2001, OS X March 24th 2001.

Well, seeing as how Autodesk don't make a version of AutoCAD for Mac OSX as far as I know....and seeing as how I spend half of my life working with, poking at and generally experimenting with AutoCAD....

And none of the alternatives are anywhere near as good as AutoCAD unfortunately. VectorWorks is about the best of them, and is still rubbish in comparison.

why would you want any virtual pc of any way shape or form when Macs will run XP natively?

Did you read my post?

 

[dirtydog]

This is the sort of stuff I was looking at.

HP Pavilion dv6174ea Centrino Core 2 Duo T5500 2048MB 120GB XP Media
£866.98 inc vat
Only 1.66GHz!

Sony Vaio BX396VP Core 2 Duo T5600
£887.39 inc vat
But with only 1GB and the 1.83GHz CPU, heavier too

Toshiba Satellite Pro A120 Core2Duo 2GHz 1GB 100GB DVD±RW XPPro
£754.98 inc vat
Only 1GB

They do have 15” screens rather than 13” but given the res is the same it’s just a waste of size, weight and battery power. You can’t see any more on the screen. 1280x800 on 13” works really well.

What about Dells? And how can you say a bigger screen is pointless just because the res is the same? What about being able to read it easier?

 

[Matt]

Just remember that the Core2Duo Mac's can now be upgraded (via software) to 802.11n wireless How many PC laptops come with 802.11n?