Make me faster

Irish_Tom · 30 Apr 2018 at 19:05

Hi everyone,

A little bit of background — I started mountain biking "properly" at the start of 2016, and since then I've made a lot of progress in terms of fitness, confidence and technique. However, I feel like I've hit a bit of a plateau recently and I'm looking for ways to step up to the next level. This is primarily because the guys I ride with are always faster than me. Admittedly, they've all been riding for a lot longer than I have but I don't want to hold them up anymore.

There's a particular loop I do at my local trail (without my riding buddies) and I think it's a decent gauge of performance as it includes a good mix of climbing, flats and descents. I got a PR yesterday — doing it in 22:34 — but I've been hovering around this time since last summer.

After some analysis of my Strava times compared to the KOM and other fast riders, I'm not actually that slow going downhill, it seems most of my time is lost on the climbs. So I assume that it’s a combination of cardio fitness and power output rather than confidence and technique.

I’m trying to improve things by riding twice a week now that the evenings are lighter, but I don’t know if that’s enough or if I should be doing something more specific.

For instance, would it be better to do five or six loops one day, then go flat-out for two loops on the other day or just do three loops each time I go?

Would I benefit from doing some free weights or even body-weight training? I used to lift a bit, so I’m not worried about skipping leg day and I assume that working the core is a good idea in general.

I'm all for putting in the effort, and if it's just a case of "keep riding and the results will come" then I'll just stick at it and be patient, but if there's something I could do to give my training a bit of a boost, I'd really appreciate any advice you can give me.

Cheers!

TallPaul_S · 30 Apr 2018 at 19:40

When you say climbs, are you talking short technical climbs or long fire-road drags to get to the top of the hill? If the latter, I'd prioritise getting up with spending the least energy possible, if you're riding with mates that's a great time to chat, make fun of each other, basically anything to pass the time and take your mind off the climb.

If it's shorter, more technical climbs, or shorter climbs between downhill sections, then yeah it'll be down to fitness and leg strength rather than technique.

Not sure on the training side of things, but interval training might be an idea, along with doing squats, lots of squats

That will soon get your core and leg muscles stronger.

Fusion · 30 Apr 2018 at 19:50

Get on the static bike in the gym and build your power output (aswell as CV system, etc). Great complement to actual riding. You may lose weight in the process which will help with the power/weight ratio.

Suprising what even a 2/3kg loss can do for you on the bike in addition to the increases in fitness.

Irish_Tom · 30 Apr 2018 at 20:34

TallPaul_S said:
Not sure on the training side of things, but interval training might be an idea, along with doing squats, lots of squats That will soon get your core and leg muscles stronger.

Good point about the type of climbing. It’s a combination of not-too-steep but rooty, mixed with some short steep bits of hard-packed gravel as well as longer gravel stretches. Nothing too technical in terms of obsticales but plenty of switchbacks.

I thought squats might be the answer.

Fusion said:
Get on the static bike in the gym and build your power output (aswell as CV system, etc). Great complement to actual riding. You may lose weight in the process which will help with the power/weight ratio.

Suprising what even a 2/3kg loss can do for you on the bike in addition to the increases in fitness.

I had a turbo set up over winter but had to dismantle it earlier than planned due to putting our house on the market.

Also, as it was a dumb trainer I didn’t really trust the power readings I got from Zwift. I was thinking about getting a smart direct-drive trainer for winter this year.

Also a good point about the weight. I’m actually about as thin as I’ve ever been (as an adult) but it’s not like I have 0% body fat either, so there’s potential to lose a bit.

I’d assumed that I’d need to put on a bit of muscle weight rather than lose weight though.

Fusion · 30 Apr 2018 at 20:43

Don't forget the recovery aspect either (nutrition). Sometimes gets overlooked in cycling but post ride protein helps nicely with reducing soreness and helping you to go harder next time around, particularly when you've got short breaks between rides.

You don't really need a fancy power meter for training, good old fashioned HR monitoring and RPE (relative perceived exertion) is enough.

Irish_Tom · 1 May 2018 at 08:07

Fusion said:
Don't forget the recovery aspect either (nutrition). Sometimes gets overlooked in cycling but post-ride protein helps nicely with reducing soreness and helping you to go harder next time around, particularly when you've got short breaks between rides.

You don't really need a fancy power meter for training, good old-fashioned HR monitoring and RPE (relative perceived exertion) is enough.

Thanks again Fusion — I'll look into post-ride nutrition.

Heart rate is a funny one; no matter how long or how hard a ride, I tend to go from normal to 170bpm almost instantly (my max HR is 190 I believe) and then stay there for the duration.

I had hoped that after two years of regular riding this would have changed/improved but it just seems that's how I'm wired up… I'm consistently in Zone 4 for 75%+ on every ride.

Fusion · 1 May 2018 at 08:24

Irish_Tom said:
Heart rate is a funny one; no matter how long or how hard a ride, I tend to go from normal to 170bpm almost instantly (my max HR is 190 I believe) and then stay there for the duration.

I had hoped that after two years of regular riding this would have changed/improved but it just seems that's how I'm wired up… I'm consistently in Zone 4 for 75%+ on every ride.

Hmmm. Are you riding flat out (or very close to)? What bike do you have (i.e. is it a really burly enduro type rig that needs a lot of power on the climbs and flats)?

Irish_Tom · 1 May 2018 at 09:51

Fusion said:
Hmmm. Are you riding flat out (or very close to)? What bike do you have (i.e. is it a really burly enduro type rig that needs a lot of power on the climbs and flats)?

It’s a Canyon Nerve AL 9.9 (2016) so it’s a 29er — not the smallest or lightest bike but equally it’s not like I’m trying to climb with a meaty downhill bike.

It’s not like I’m tearing around at 100% effort all of the time either, I just seen to have a high operating heart rate…

Begbie · 1 May 2018 at 09:54

Nothing beats time on the bike. A road bike will help, so much easier to get out a ride.

Squatting and strong legs helps with MTB'n. But more time on the bike = fitter.

Irish_Tom · 1 May 2018 at 13:13

Begbie said:
Nothing beats time on the bike. A road bike will help, so much easier to get out a ride.

Squatting and strong legs helps with MTB'n. But more time on the bike = fitter.

Yeah, it's just trying to work out if there's a better/more effective way of using my time on the bike to achieve the results I'm after. Either by changing the kind of rides I do or changing my approach to my current regular loop(s).

BennyC · 2 May 2018 at 18:39

Train indoors. TrainerRoad.

Structure & periodisation will make you more powerful and ultimately faster. Providing you don't get fat along the way

A power figure doesn't need to be accurate, it just needs to be reliably consistent, initially anyway.

Irish_Tom · 3 May 2018 at 12:25

BennyC said:
Train indoors. TrainerRoad.

Structure & periodisation will make you more powerful and ultimately faster. Providing you don't get fat along the way

A power figure doesn't need to be accurate, it just needs to be reliably consistent, initially anyway.

Do you think TR is better than Zwift for structured programs? I always enjoyed doing the Zwift workouts but it was always very much a case of "I fancy doing the SST(med) today" rather than having the app say "today do X, in two days do Y and at the end of the week do Z".

I went for a ride last night, including post-ride protein shake and felt pretty good despite the wet and mud.

I read somewhere that for really effective training, you should ride a minimum of three times a week. So I'm thinking of sticking to two rides/week in May and then step up to three for the rest of the summer.

Fusion · 3 May 2018 at 12:41

Three will be better than two if you can recover enough in between. Two is still fine though.

BennyC · 3 May 2018 at 13:18

Irish_Tom said:
Do you think TR is better than Zwift for structured programs? I always enjoyed doing the Zwift workouts but it was always very much a case of "I fancy doing the SST(med) today" rather than having the app say "today do X, in two days do Y and at the end of the week do Z".

Yes, very much so.

Your plan is specified and less generic and works to your time constraints.

I read somewhere that for really effective training, you should ride a minimum of three times a week. So I'm thinking of sticking to two rides/week in May and then step up to three for the rest of the summer.

It's all relative.

Irish_Tom · 4 May 2018 at 13:45

BennyC said:
Yes, very much so.

Your plan is specified and less generic and works to your time constraints.

It's all relative.

Fusion said:
Three will be better than two if you can recover enough in between. Two is still fine though.

Thanks chaps, I will check out Trainer Road and try and build up to riding three times a week.

I’ll try to remember to keep this thread updated with my progress as well.

Irish_Tom · 6 May 2018 at 10:44

Did a few loops yesterday and improved my PR to 21 minutes dead.

Quite pleased with the difference over my previous PR from a week ago. What’s more, my second slower loop was only 20 seconds off my PR from last week.

Still a way off the KOM (13:37) — not that I plan on ever fighting for it — but it’s something to work towards.

It seems like the extra mid-week rides are already helping even though I’ve only done a few.

Fusion · 6 May 2018 at 13:24

Irish_Tom said:
Did a few loops yesterday and improved my PR to 21 minutes dead.

Quite pleased with the difference over my previous PR from a week ago. What’s more, my second slower loop was only 20 seconds off my PR from last week.

Still a way off the KOM (13:37) — not that I plan on ever fighting for it — but it’s something to work towards.

It seems like the extra mid-week rides are already helping even though I’ve only done a few.

Good man! It's remarkable sometimes how quickly your fitness can improve.

One thing I find helpful generally is not to benchmark yourself against other people too much, as there's always someone faster. Some (most) of us don't have the genetics or physiology to match the very best, however much we train. We can improve though

BennyC · 6 May 2018 at 20:25

Race against yourself, no one else

Begbie · 7 May 2018 at 08:17

BennyC said:
Race against yourself, no one else

However me and a friend are always trying to take the PB off each other, it's fun and it helps push yourself a little knowing you have those bragging rights

BennyC · 7 May 2018 at 08:38

Begbie said:
However me and a friend are always trying to take the PB off each other, it's fun and it helps push yourself a little knowing you have those bragging rights

What's a little competition among friends

Just chasing the KOM against someone who rides more hours in a week than they work, was probably lead out by a 20 man bunch having sat at the back of the pack all the way there and pushed up it by a 50mph tailwind, is a little unrealistic