Mantle vS 780Ti in BF4

humbug · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:12

Gregster said:
I don't need to do anything. I started the thread and know exactly what Thetechreport has to say on it. They are very articulate and know what they are talking about.

They didn't know what they claimed to be the reason for their 'Apparent' results is actually impossible.

I knew that the second i laid eye's on it, so much for being the experts, i'm not!

Gregster · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:14

humbug said:
They didn't know what they claimed to be the reason for their 'Apparent' results is actually impossible.

I knew that the second i laid eye's on it, so much for being the experts, i'm not!

That makes no sense. Do you have a link so I can have a look please?

humbug · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:17

Gregster said:
That makes no sense. Do you have a link so I can have a look please?

I already posted it. its in the post you quoted, linked to where i said 'Link'.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=25806013&postcount=215

Originally Posted By repi (Johan Anderson)
In our experience, DX11 deferred contexts give no performance gains at all, the opposite actually, so have completely given up on it which is sad but true.
See my slide #34 here:

Gregster · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:17

Suarez7 said:
I don't think any of the AMD guys are trying to justify their purchase, without mantle the 290x is just as fast if not faster in BF4 anyway and £100 cheaper than a TI. What do they need to justify?

Maybe close this thread till Mantle is fully working as for the moment it's going round in circles.

I would agree if the original article was about trying to justify a 290X but it isn't, it is about the 780Ti beating a 290X in BF4 with an article from Thetechreport.

Stanners · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:20

Suarez7 said:
I don't think any of the AMD guys are trying to justify their purchase, without mantle the 290x is just as fast if not faster in BF4 anyway and £100 cheaper than a TI. What do they need to justify?

Maybe close this thread till Mantle is fully working as for the moment it's going round in circles.

And all mantle praise threads?

Suarez7 · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:22

Gregster said:
I would agree if the original article was about trying to justify a 290X but it isn't, it is about the 780Ti beating a 290X in BF4 with an article from Thetechreport.

That's kind of my point though, it's not worth comparing till Mantle is stable. It's like comparing a nvidia card using a poor driver that doesn't work well for a game against an AMD card that runs it fine on a stable driver.

There's no way in hell I'm going to accept that Mantle offers little to nothing based on the 1st driver using it.

I'm quite surprised sites have even bothered trying to dismantle

its benefits already.

Stanners said:
And all mantle praise threads?

No, this is hardly a mantle praise thread is it?

The Mantle threads are for AMD users to discuss their findings using it, this thread is basically nvidia vs AMD, yes I know Mantle threads get like that at points, but they eventually get back on topic.

Gregster · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:23

humbug said:
I already posted it. its in the post you quoted, linked to where i said 'Link'.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=25806013&postcount=215

Looked and no idea. Explain to me in laymen terms what Thetechreport did wrong.

Stanners · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:24

My point been, we can have threads that put mantle in a position that suits certain people. But if we have a thread these people don't like we can not?

Gregster · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:26

Suarez7 said:
That's kind of my point though, it's not worth comparing till Mantle is stable. It's like comparing a nvidia card using a poor driver that doesn't work well for a game against an AMD card that runs it fine on a stable driver.

There's no way in hell I'm going to accept that Mantle offers little to nothing based on the 1st driver using it.

I'm quite surprised sites have even bothered trying to dismantle its benefits already.

No, this is hardly a mantle praise thread is it?

The Mantle threads are for AMD users to discuss their findings using it, this thread is basically nvidia vs AMD, yes I know Mantle threads get like that at points, but they eventually get back on topic.

Gregster said:
I am reporting news from a well respected tech site and as I also like nVidia, I thought it was some good news to share with nVidia users. Sorry if you didn't like it but there is plenty of pro AMD threads

Suarez7 · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:27

What do you mean suits certain people? You mean the guys actually using it and discussing their findings and doing bench runs. That's hardly praising it, I've seen many AMD users in there saying they aren't pleased so far.

Calin Banc · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:32

Speaking about Battlefied, weren't there some spots on the maps where performance dropped real hard? Like the one in the pic? Put some comparative SS right here, right now. For sure there are users with r290x/pro and others with titan/780ti that can do this.

http://imgur.com/ZQaKufE

Stanners · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:34

What has this got to do with the report Greg provided showing a set of results for BF4 using DX vs BF4 using said cards. Why should it be closed?

It showed a set of results using a certain testing criteria, discuss it, disagree with it, but to close it.. Really

Anyway I am out as I believe people try to derail threads to get exactly what you are suggesting. Have fun.

Gregster · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:36

Suarez7 said:
What do you mean suits certain people? You mean the guys actually using it and discussing their findings and doing bench runs. That's hardly praising it, I've seen many AMD users in there saying they aren't pleased so far.

I agree with Stanners. This wasn't a thread about praising AMD, more a thread praising the 780Ti for being a beast. Is that not allowed?

Suarez7 · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:37

It's already been discussed to the point it's going round in circles, surely you can see that?

Where did I say it was a thread praising AMD greg?

Praising 780ti for being a beast lol, no **** sherlock I think everyone knew that anyway. It still brought Mantle into it and tried to make it look poor against the nvidia card.

Buckster · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:38

wonder how many weeks before lowest 780 TIs are at around 460-475

will be interesting to see what the R290x prices do then

Gregster · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:46

Suarez7 said:
It's already been discussed to the point it's going round in circles, surely you can see that?

Where did I say it was a thread praising AMD greg?

Praising 780ti for being a beast lol, no **** sherlock I think everyone knew that anyway. It still brought Mantle into it and tried to make it look poor against the nvidia card.

Sorry, on the defensive because of all the stick I have taken. I guess I could have worded the thread name better but the same people would have posted the same and yep, the thread is going round in circles.

For me though, we can only test the here and now. Sure Mantle is a mess at present but even with it 100% working, I can't see BF4 making massive gains, as even AMD reps are saying it is a CPU bottleneck reliever now. With Thief being next, I can't see Mantle making much of an impact on that and I doubt it will be hard on the CPU either, as it is using the UE3.

Suarez7 · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:49

I completely understand testing the here and now but some seem to be taking the results as that's what it is and all it will ever be which seems naive for something days into its release.

As always, time will tell

Gregster · 7 Feb 2014 at 16:58

Suarez7 said:
I completely understand testing the here and now but some seem to be taking the results as that's what it is and all it will ever be which seems naive for something days into its release.

As always, time will tell

Happens a lot. I remember people used to kick up and say BF3 was faster because of all the drivers AMD had brought out and gave massive gains but never considered that nVidia were doing the same with up to 20% here, 15% there etc.

It has come to light (if I am reading things correctly of course (which I might not be)) That nVidia cope better with D3D and CPU talking.

humbug · 7 Feb 2014 at 17:09

Gregster said:
Looked and no idea. Explain to me in laymen terms what Thetechreport did wrong.

They said their BF4 results are as such because of something that does not even exist in BF4, whats more they then used that to argue this is why NV are faster in DX than AMD in Mantle, i repeat, the thing they say gives NV the edge over Mantle in BF4 does not exist in BF4.

I cannot get any more laymen than that.

BF4's creator is pretty Laymen about it himself.

Originally Posted By repi (Johan Anderson)
In our experience, DX11 deferred contexts give no performance gains at all, the opposite actually, so have completely given up on it which is sad but true.
See my slide #34 here:

This is why he helped create Mantle, this is the reason for Mantle, its why he wants Nvidia to move to Mantle, this is the reason Nvidia using any DX path cannot be better than Mantle, which is the reason the TR article is utter nonsense.

Its you, Nvidia users who lose out by believing in this DirectX Thread Batching rubbish, Nvidia will not move to what is a much better API unless you the costumer want them to, Me, or we we have what we want.
Time to hold your favoured supplier to account. just as we have many times for AMD's failings. no one here was more critical at the 7990 Price and the 290/X reference cooler, well, thats arguable....
Nvidia don't want to submit to Mantle. don't you see that?

Silent_Scone · 7 Feb 2014 at 17:13

Calin Banc said:
Speaking about Battlefied, weren't there some spots on the maps where performance dropped real hard? Like the one in the pic? Put some comparative SS right here, right now. For sure there are users with r290x/pro and others with titan/780ti that can do this.
http://imgur.com/ZQaKufE

Love it!