May rejects points-based system for EU nationals

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Narj said:
It's not worth people getting worked up until they see what else is on the table. A points system is still not that useful without a cap on numbers - either as a whole or by sector.

As long as the system proposed is fair and attracts quality that we need, what's the problem?
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She might not be that keen on a cap either, after her and Hunt's NHS staffing U-turns during the non-EU squeeze phase (but there were others), where they attempted to bring about a cap to target (<100,000 net) via the existing system we imported from Australia/Canada; a system which was the mostly likely and cheapest expansion to cover the main component of immigration in case of full Brexit, or a deal which made such a system legally workable. And yet guess which component of immigration is still higher? All that money, time, waste, exposure to legal challenges, and for what? It neither robustly meets the needs of the economy, without getting into the unfair treatment of predominantly less well to do international couples and students, nor the wild desires of the ranters of all shades and prejudices, as it stands.

A cap that's bypassed by a thousand exceptions and is arbitrarily low is doomed to failure much more rapidly than a PBS that lets in effectively the same number of people. However, if the isolationists want to try to re-fight, and lose, another battle against free trade and movement of people, which is a natural extension when you come to services, they are welcome to try. Such spasms will only cost them in the long run.
 
scorza said:
No, because the referendum was about whether the UK should remain in or Leave the EU, not about which immigration system we should use. Quite simple really.
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.....and yet millions voted specifically for the things Farage and Co were proposing/whinging about.....
 
nkata said:
All a points based system is is a method of allowing anyone with enough points to enter. It does not address limits based on demand which is what is required.

A more granular system will need to be developed which addresses the needs of the country, industry and allows the government of the day to determine who they wish to allow in and who to restrict for whatever reason. I believe that this approach is what Mrs May wishes to legislate.

No policy was fixed during the referendum. This is what is being produced now.
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This, total sense spoken


Immigration should be to supliment our needs.

Points based is meaningless if its still lots of people who we don't need
 
chroniclard said:
.....and yet millions voted specifically for the things Farage and Co were proposing/whinging about.....
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Ask the same people to tell the difference between the officially designated Vote Leave campaign and Farage's GO circus. Although 'it's the other guys, not us' can only work for so long before the public catches up to who said what.

Tefal said:
This, total sense spoken


Immigration should be to supliment our needs.

Points based is meaningless if its still lots of people who we don't need
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If this were a real and material white paper that consulted our businesses, regions and public services, I'd read it. Alas.
 
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helpimcrap said:
I'm all for immigration, just not an open door policy like before. There needs to be limits, otherwise you'll get what's happened by not processing properly. It's not rocket science.
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With the current situation, deciding on a policy seems harder than rocket science.

A Points system which values levels of education will choke industries which heavily rely on migrant workers but are not sought after by locals generally. eg pickers and such. Introducing such a system will not just shake the businesses which use many migrant workers but will also have significant effects on tax income. The vast majority of the migrants 'cost very little' compare to a local who needed to be educated here, as migrants come pre-educated, eager to work and often come here single and leave prior to retirement, when people are most costly on the tax payer.

Whether they send their leftover money back home after tax and expenses is negligible in the grand scheme of things.

I am not oppose to some migration control, i just dont believe it is a fix to most of the problems and a points based system based on tiers of education simply does not suit us. The situation delicate and a decision on what kind of control will not solve anything by itself unless you also adjust problems that are associated with (but not a result of) increased immigration (eg. welfare abuse, public safety concerns, lack of accommodation and cost of living *not stunted wages* )
 
I'd use a system similar to what the US used historically; quota's by nation. Germans, French, Swedes, Australian's, Japanese etc will have high quotas, Poles, Bulgarians and Serbs middling quotas, Nigerians, Somalians and Pakistanis can have low quotas. I'd probably cap total quotas in the 100,000 range.

This way, we'd have pretty much an open door to countries with similar economic development and cultural norms but a tough policy on those with poor development and cultural differences.
 
datalol-jack said:
Ask the same people to tell the difference between the officially designated Vote Leave campaign and Farage's GO circus. Although 'it's the other guys, not us' can only work for so long before the public catches up to who said what.



If this were a real and material white paper that consulted our businesses, regions and public services, I'd read it. Alas.
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Well at this point they havent decided a plan so I'm happier to wait and see what they come up with rather than lamenting a system that was likley to be broken as hell anyway.

Point may make up a part of it combed with caps, nation caps, sector caps etc


Maybe say you need 100 points (based on quals, money etc) but then theres a cap of 20k for say skilled manual labour (brickies etc) but a cap of 100k for akilled health care professionals
 
chroniclard said:
.....and yet millions voted specifically for the things Farage and Co were proposing/whinging about.....
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Source for that? Last time I checked, ballot papers where the voter indicates why they have chosen their preference are counted as "spoiled".
 
scorza said:
Source for that? Last time I checked, ballot papers where the voter indicates why they have chosen their preference are counted as "spoiled".
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Are you trying to say all the half truths and out right lies by the leave campaign did not influence the decisions of millions of voters?
 
chroniclard said:
Are you trying to say all the half truths and out right lies by the leave campaign did not influence the decisions of millions of voters?
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Well if they did influence people's decisions, they did so more effectively than the lies and half-truths of the remain campaign :cool: Still waiting for that emergency budget...
 
Point based with annual adjustable quotas ought to be fine

are we going to have a new thread every time someone prominent comments on Brexit? It seems pointless until article 50 is triggered and actual discussion on exiting begin.
 
dowie said:
are we going to have a new thread every time someone prominent comments on Brexit? It seems pointless until article 50 is triggered and actual discussion on exiting begin.
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I've asked this in FCD, i'd prefer the one Brexit Thread even if it does go round in circles, others seem to prefer individual threads about every talking point.

Waiting on an answer from the mods
 
Tefal said:
Well at this point they havent decided a plan so I'm happier to wait and see what they come up with rather than lamenting a system that was likley to be broken as hell anyway.

Point may make up a part of it combed with caps, nation caps, sector caps etc


Maybe say you need 100 points (based on quals, money etc) but then theres a cap of 20k for say skilled manual labour (brickies etc) but a cap of 100k for akilled health care professionals
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It's interesting, but discards the cheapest possible alternative in favour of something that will need to be designed, monitored and staffed to a presumably less 'broken' standard almost from scratch, say borrowing systematic ideas heavily from the US, which again is far from the best immigration system in the world. Not to forget that we moved to the current system from a visa regime, which again had problems surviving as the country progressed to the post-industrial stage in its development.

Now, I don't know about you, but I distinctly recall a cost-saving and anti-bureaucratic argument in favour of departing the EU as well. How'd you square that circle? Against NHS restructuring, continued teething problems in the academy programme, running welfare battles (lol IDS and his Universal Credit) and other domestic issues intervening, I say it'll be fudged to get the best possible trade. Whether either of us will like the fudge is, as you say, yet to be seen.
 
chroniclard said:
That may be so but has no relevance to the discussion or thread.
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That's just your opinion.

I *listened* to Brexit campaigners, they made it clear on a number of occasions that they weren't an alternative government, so whatever positions they may hold, such as favouring a points-based immigration system, were examples of what could be done, not what would be done. Call that a lie or a half-truth if you want, but it's not really anything but winning the argument.
 
Freakbro said:
I've asked this in FCD, i'd prefer the one Brexit Thread even if it does go round in circles, others seem to prefer individual threads about every talking point.
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I hate super-threads, they defeat the point of having a threading system in the first place.
 
As far as I'm aware and with my understanding of plain English, a points based immigration system was discussed as a "for example," thing during the Brexit debate.

I know the raving slapheads are desperately clinging on to this stuff but it was.
 
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