McLaren-Mercedes engine

Merlin5 · 12 Jul 2010 at 16:42

Do any of you think that although McLaren-Mercedes are doing well, it would be even nicer if they used british made engines instead of ze germans? The Cosworth engines used by Virgin, Lotus, Hispania and Williams, they're all british aren't they? I guess they're just not as fast and reliable?

Sone · 12 Jul 2010 at 16:49

pretty sure they are made in Britain. Mercedes bought out illmor a few years back.

EDIT, isn't cosworth owned by the yanks?

rpstewart · 12 Jul 2010 at 17:05

Sone said:
pretty sure they are made in Britain. Mercedes bought out illmor a few years back.

EDIT, isn't cosworth owned by the yanks?

Indeed, Mercedes High Performance Engines (nee Ilmor) are in Brixworth, just outside Northampton.

Cosworth, while also Northants based is owned by Americans.

JRS · 12 Jul 2010 at 17:07

Mercedes-Benz HighPerformanceEngines Ltd. (previously known as Mercedes-Ilmor) is an English-based Formula One engine manufacturer

Factory is in Brixworth. Last time I checked, Brixworth was in England

But even if they were made in Germany, I can't say that I'd care all that much.

***edit***

Beaten to the punch. That's what I get for using an unfamiliar keyboard!

gord · 12 Jul 2010 at 17:16

Some of the parts for their engines are made by my old man's own English hands...

Or by his German CNC machines...

Merlin5 · 12 Jul 2010 at 17:30

Ok, but the mercedes engines are still german technology specification, just built in britain?

Duke · 12 Jul 2010 at 17:31

The Cosworth is ****.

rpstewart · 12 Jul 2010 at 17:54

Merlin5 said:
Ok, but the mercedes engines are still german technology specification, just built in britain?

They're designed and built by MB HPE. The dosh may come from Stuttgart but the brains are based in Britain - although not necessarily British by nationality.

FrankJH · 12 Jul 2010 at 19:15

I presume (by the name of the company) it has been wholly bought by Mercedes? Ie the engines arent rebadged or anything?

Infact its neither here nor there I believe, dont McLaren and Merc have a deal to totally part ways (engine wise) by 2015 or something?

Sone · 12 Jul 2010 at 19:31

there was a rumour of McLaren buying BMWs old engine dept, not heard anything since so i assumed nothing ever happened.

dalin80 · 12 Jul 2010 at 19:49

With mclaren building their own road car engines now i wouldnt be surprised if they are fully indy runners in the next 5 years.

Glaucus · 12 Jul 2010 at 19:51

Would be nice if they used British stuff, but merc engine is the "best" although slightly fuel hungry.

No other engine people will join as there is no development, I doubt any will join next year, as there is still basically no development, the rules are to tight.

MarcLister · 12 Jul 2010 at 20:01

FrankJH said:
Infact its neither here nor there I believe, dont McLaren and Merc have a deal to totally part ways (engine wise) by 2015 or something?

Yep. So 2016 will see McLaren using new engines. I reckon the expertise they'll gain from building the MP4-12C with their own engines will give them the expertise to design, build and maintain their own engines a la Ferrari. It would surely cost them less money to bring everything in house than to partner up with a new engine supplier and they'd have the advantage of being able to make car, engine and gearbox fit seamlessly together.

Any costs involved in this could be recovered by selling the engine to other teams.

FrankJH · 12 Jul 2010 at 20:08

MarcLister said:
Yep. So 2016 will see McLaren using new engines. I reckon the expertise they'll gain from building the MP4-12C with their own engines will give them the expertise to design, build and maintain their own engines a la Ferrari. It would surely cost them less money to bring everything in house than to partner up with a new engine supplier and they'd have the advantage of being able to make car, engine and gearbox fit seamlessly together.

Any costs involved in this could be recovered by selling the engine to other teams.

Surely its a totally different class of engine though (edit - I mean so different, that the two cant be comparable - like an ipod and against a grand piano both being audio reproducing equipment lol)

hmmm am I right in thinking Ferrari sold road cars so they could actually afford to race in F1 to start with (ie doing what McLaren hope to but backwards for want of a better word), Mercedes I think were selling road cars well before they were the Silver Arrows from 40s/50s (maybe they were racing well before that anyway)

Even given the knowledge McLaren would have got from Mercedes, Honda and whoever else in the past, and whatever they will gain from building their own road car engines, I would still expect them to have a really steep learning curve for a F1 engine (esp given the limited testing they are allowed to do now)

MarcLister · 12 Jul 2010 at 20:23

FrankJH said:
Surely its a totally different class of engine though (edit - I mean so different, that the two cant be comparable - like an ipod and against a grand piano both being audio reproducing equipment lol)

Course its different but surely having staff who can build some kind of engine is better than not?

FrankJH · 12 Jul 2010 at 20:35

MarcLister said:
Course its different but surely having staff who can build some kind of engine is better than not?

sorry should have explained it better

McLaren , like Ferrari and Merc and Renault especially build engines (and teams) to win races, the time it will take them to get a new engine design into that position will be several seasons surely?

F1 lives and breaths by a 10th/s here and there, Im just surprised a leading team is taking such a gigantic gamble, even given how close they have had to work would McLaren know all the ins and outs of the Mercedes (or RB about the Renault etc etc, well McLaren are a much bigger team with more resources so it could be easier for them from this pov)

Glaucus · 12 Jul 2010 at 20:52

well they have the merc engine till 2015 so plenty of seasons to build there own if they wish, especially with the new rules, levelling the planing field.

MarcLister · 12 Jul 2010 at 21:06

FrankJH said:
sorry should have explained it better

McLaren , like Ferrari and Merc and Renault especially build engines (and teams) to win races, the time it will take them to get a new engine design into that position will be several seasons surely?

F1 lives and breaths by a 10th/s here and there, Im just surprised a leading team is taking such a gigantic gamble, even given how close they have had to work would McLaren know all the ins and outs of the Mercedes (or RB about the Renault etc etc, well McLaren are a much bigger team with more resources so it could be easier for them from this pov)

Ah OK I see what you mean. McLaren and Mercedes will have worked together for 20 years by 2015, McLaren's staff will have picked up some stuff by then. And what's to stop McLaren pinching some of the key design/construction/maintenance staff from Ilmor?

AcidHell2 said:
well they have the merc engine till 2015 so plenty of seasons to build there own if they wish, especially with the new rules, levelling the planing field.

True, hadn't thought of that. They've got what 4 and a half years to get an F1 engine ready and as the F1 engine wouldn't be used in F1 until 2016 they must be outside the engine regulations?

speedalini · 12 Jul 2010 at 21:06

I can definately see Mclaren using their own engines after they part company with Mercedes.

MarcLister · 12 Jul 2010 at 21:15

speedalini said:
I can definately see Mclaren using their own engines after they part company with Mercedes.

YES! Thank you.

Why would you say that then? For bringing everything in house and having greater control over the engine? Saving money?

Just want to see why other people share the same idiotic idea as a deluded soul like me.