Meshed access points?

Firegod · 23 Sep 2023 at 23:09

Hey all

I was about to pull the trigger on some zyxel access points but stopped. Is it right that for mesh mode that one becomes a repeater? Which means degraded performance because of the hop.

I checked ubiquiti docs and seems to suggest the same.

Can access points not be run like a mesh wifi system with nodes that operate with a wired back haul?

Otherwise what is the point of access points if they can't create a seamless wifi environment that doesn't involve one or more being a repeater?

So confused.

Thanks.

Firegod · 24 Sep 2023 at 17:23

OK think I know where I've gone wrong. I was looking into, with regards to Zyxel, "Easy Mesh" where you have a repeater. I think I need to set access point up as described here - https://community.zyxel.com/en/discussion/3153/how-to-set-up-seamless-wireless-roaming

So you can do seamless roaming with the access points wired into the same switch.

Orcvader · 24 Sep 2023 at 18:28

Pretty much, as long as the roaming works good then it'll be the same as mesh, although better speed/latency wise as it's ethernet backhaul instead of wireless.

CaNsA · 24 Sep 2023 at 18:58

Oi oi.

If you are upgrading to a mesh WiFi network with the aim to improve WiFi coverage in your gaff, you can't fix bad WiFi by adding more WiFi.

I highly recommend getting kit that supports a wired backhaul between the 2 nodes.

OspreyO · 24 Sep 2023 at 21:14

CaNsA said:
Oi oi.

If you are upgrading to a mesh WiFi network with the aim to improve WiFi coverage in your gaff, you can't fix bad WiFi by adding more WiFi.

I highly recommend getting kit that supports a wired backhaul between the 2 nodes.

Did exactly did that for me.

eggbert · 24 Sep 2023 at 23:04

Some Wi-Fi mesh systems have a dedicated extra radio just for the backhaul, these in theory can do at least one hop without speed degradation. However they still have all the same pitfalls with congestion and interference and are usually mucho more moneys

OspreyO · 24 Sep 2023 at 23:28

Mine a relatively cheap mesh got me WiFi coverage where previously I had none and much improved speeds where I had decent coverage before. To the point I didn't feel the need for ethernet in most of the house.

The exception to the that is any multiplayer gaming where lag is an issue. But thankfully any device with that requirement is either close to the modem and wired, or within the strongest WiFi zone.

I'm not trying to push low latency connection to the furthest zone of my mesh. If I had that requirement I probably would revert to ethernet in some form, backhaul etc. I have 3 nodes. A bit of noise from neighbours WiFi.

Orcvader · 25 Sep 2023 at 11:24

CaNsA said:
Oi oi.

If you are upgrading to a mesh WiFi network with the aim to improve WiFi coverage in your gaff, you can't fix bad WiFi by adding more WiFi.

I highly recommend getting kit that supports a wired backhaul between the 2 nodes.

But they already mentioned they're getting access points wired to the same switch

:

Firegod said:
OK think I know where I've gone wrong. I was looking into, with regards to Zyxel, "Easy Mesh" where you have a repeater. I think I need to set access point up as described here - https://community.zyxel.com/en/discussion/3153/how-to-set-up-seamless-wireless-roaming

So you can do seamless roaming with the access points wired into the same switch.

Firegod · 25 Sep 2023 at 11:52

Thanks all. Yeah this is what I'm planning to do - https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/network-change-up-move-to-aps.18977913/

CaNsA · 27 Sep 2023 at 17:35

Orcvader said:
But they already mentioned they're getting access points wired to the same switch :

That's great, but unless the APs have the software to use it as a dedicated wired backhaul its just a hardwire to a switch.

WJA96 · 27 Sep 2023 at 21:20

CaNsA said:
That's great, but unless the APs have the software to use it as a dedicated wired backhaul its just a hardwire to a switch.

Isn’t that the definition of an access point?

You plug it into your network using a cable and you get WLAN access.

CaNsA · 27 Sep 2023 at 22:39

WJA96 said:
Isn’t that the definition of an access point?

You plug it into your network using a cable and you get WLAN access.

But this is a mesh network.

How will the node communicate with the base station?

The backhaul is a dedicated comms route between the 2 devices.

Wired backhaul is more reliable than a wireless backhaul.

But unless these devices know to use a wired backhaul, which not all mesh devices can do, all node-base comms will still be via WiFi.

There are plenty of videos on YouTube of you are interested in knowing how a mesh WiFi network operates.

Orcvader · 28 Sep 2023 at 00:18

CaNsA said:
But this is a mesh network.

How will the node communicate with the base station?

The backhaul is a dedicated comms route between the 2 devices.

Wired backhaul is more reliable than a wireless backhaul.

But unless these devices know to use a wired backhaul, which not all mesh devices can do, all node-base comms will still be via WiFi.

There are plenty of videos on YouTube of you are interested in knowing how a mesh WiFi network operates.

It's not exactly mesh, where a bunch of nodes wirelessly connect with each other to create a seamless network. In this case, it's access points that supports WiFi roaming, and they're all controlled by a controller, not a base station. This is how they know they can hand off a client to another AP that's closer to them. For Zyxel at least, I believe the controller software is in the cloud, and is easily accessed via a web UI or phone app.

CaNsA · 28 Sep 2023 at 00:47

Orcvader said:
It's not exactly mesh, where a bunch of nodes wirelessly connect with each other to create a seamless network. In this case, it's access points that supports WiFi roaming, and they're all controlled by a controller, not a base station. This is how they know they can hand off a client to another AP that's closer to them. For Zyxel at least, I believe the controller software is in the cloud, and is easily accessed via a web UI or phone app.

Decent info, so it's something akin to "faux-mesh"?
Very similar to the old school WDS which was great fun.

WJA96 · 28 Sep 2023 at 03:13

CaNsA said:
But this is a mesh network.

How will the node communicate with the base station?

The backhaul is a dedicated comms route between the 2 devices.

Wired backhaul is more reliable than a wireless backhaul.

But unless these devices know to use a wired backhaul, which not all mesh devices can do, all node-base comms will still be via WiFi.

There are plenty of videos on YouTube of you are interested in knowing how a mesh WiFi network operates.

I apologise for being imprecise. By definition, an access point is capable of operating standalone with what you term ‘wired backhaul’. Therefore when you say access point, it can use the cabled connection. Otherwise it’s not an access point, it’s a mesh node.